Early potty training

[Melly]

If anyone else is keen to potty train early, I have recently purchased an excellent book called Potty Training your Baby by Katie Van Pelt. It is available from WHSmith. I posted on another thread about early potty training a while back and a few of you were keen to hear how I got on when the time came. Two weeks down the line and things are going really well with my dd (aged 10.5 months) she now claps her hands and laughs when she performs! Yesterday she was sitting in the bathroom just before she had her bath, the potty was on the floor, she crawled over to it, tugged at it, I thought maybe she wants to wee, so popped her on and sure enough she did a huge wee. I don't think it will all be plain sailing and by starting this early, the process obviously takes alot longer because the sphincter muscles don't properly develop until babies are about 18 months ish apparently, but so far so good.

Melly I am quite interested in the book - how much did it cost? The only thing is I'm not sure how I would go on with training DS early due to his going to nursery 3 days a week. Wouldn't be that early anyway - he is 15 months now.

Hi Bozza, the book was £4.99, perhaps a bit of a rip off as it is quite a small softback with only just over 100 pages, but it does make very interesting reading.
I know what you mean about what do you when they are at nursery, that it something that may cause problems for me. I work part-time and my dd goes to a childminder, however she is my aunt to whom I am extremely close and we have very similar views on those type of topics. That said, she does have other children to look after and I am little bit concerned about what will happen on the days she is there. I have been on sick leave and am now on annual leave so it hasn't been an issue yet for me. Maybe you could speak to the nursery to find out what the arrangements are for potty training. I really don't see why things should be any different just because parents chose to potty train their children that bit earlier, but I know the "norm" these days is to wait until quite a bit older and I suppose nurserys have geared themselves towards training older toddlers.

Let us know how you get on.

Melly, How are you getting on? I am intrigued.

Absolutely no offense intended, but why so young? Babies are already learning so much at this age.
Is there any specific reason to potty train this early? (Sorry, I did not catch the earlier thread)

I'm curious too. I have just had the most marvelous potty training experience with ds - he did it pretty much all by himself overnight. I know I'm really lucky and hear all sorts of stories about various long-drawn out affaires, and I really feel that it was best to wait until he wanted to do it. (Luckily it happened sooner rather than later, and totally smoothly - down to ds, not me)

Before he did, I kind of toyed with the idea of training both mine together. (Younger ds is 17 months). I thought I's try & put sibling rivalry to something productive for a change!) Younger ds is quite interested at seeing db on potty/toilet, but after experience with other ds, I'm going to leave younger to do it when he's ready too. I suppose it'd be a miracle if I had a repeat experience (but here's hoping!)

But looking at ds II, it just seems totally pointless in going down that road at such a young age.

I really am not attacking you, just trying to explain why it now wouldn't be for me to 'train' early, and also wonder why you want to do it so early? (I seem to recall reading from the other thread that you said you knew it took longer (usually) the earlier you start, so I was curious why you wanted to take the longer road.

(Maybe you could pursuade me & I could have 2 out of nappies! )

Thanks for the interest, I'm getting on really, really well. As I have said before on a different thread, I personally don't think it is very early or too early, it's just an alternative way to the current trend, perhaps the more traditional way of potty training. If you prefer to wait until your child is 2 or older then fine, as long as all concerned have a positive experience and it doesn't become a major hurdle or something that has to be "tackled". My SIL had quite a difficult time with several attempts between the age of 2 - 2.5 and always admitted that she was absolutely dreading doing it. I've never thought about potty training in that way but we are very different personalities.

I personally question why it is better to delay potty training until the age of 2 or even older? Ok, so a child of that age understands a lot more of what is being asked or expected of them and they are muture enough to think about it first. However you also have to consider that this very fact can potentially hinder progress because they are much more independent, and perhaps more argumentative and contrary, therefore possibly less willing to co-operate. Babies are very quick and eager to learn and it is perfectly possible to potty train a baby at a younger age, just not so quickly.

Monkey, I have opted for the longer route because I suppose I wanted my dd to see using the potty as a natural and even enjoyable experience, gradually learning the association between weeing/pooing and using the potty, and, hopefully avoiding being scared or intolerant of using the potty when she was old enough to question this.

The makers of pull ups etc might well be laughing all the way to the bank, but I won't be lining their pockets however convenient their product might be. Most of my friends/family etc of a similar age were successfully potty trained between 15-18 months, probably the incentive was greater back then without the convenience of disposables.

That said, I fully respect others who wish to delay potty training, IMO the subject is as personal as say child in a routine or not or sleeping in your bed or not.

Oxocube, I think you've actually answered your own question if you think about it enough

I do realise that I am in the minority and I never really expected to get very much support about this topic on Mumsnet, however I am more than willing to pass on any tips (or pitfalls) I learn as I go along with early potty training. All I can say so far is that dd was happy always to sit on the potty, she is never made to sit there for ages, she laughs when she does a pee and if she doesn't I never show any frustration or disapproval. We have a way to go yet, but so far all is going well.

Melly I am beginning to wish I had done the same as you. I bought the book you recommended at the start of the thread and a lot of it made sense to me. I've started DS but he is 16 months and obviously quite active so it is quite a feat to get him to sit on the potty ie I have to entertain him all the time. I have two soft balls that I throw to him and he catches. He points to which ball I am to throw so he feels like he is in charge which helps keep him sweet! I have noticed his ball skills have improved but unfortunately nothing in the potty yet. How often do you put dd on the potty and at what times of day (related to sleeps, drinks etc)?

My cleaner insists all her three babies were potty trained by a year! It may well be defective memory but she's very sure. She says that in the days before disposables mothers were very keen to get their kids trained. Nannies used to put babies on the potty very early to get them used to the idea and feel Ok with the potty. I can't see myself going down that route though. Too lazy!

Hi Bozza and Aloha.
Firstly Bozza, just keep going as you are, you're doing fine. DD doesn't always perform and I have learnt that the key is not to make too much of an issue one way or another. DD (generally) goes on the potty about three to four times a day at the moment, generally when they wake up, apparently babies are like us in that they need to have a wee shortly after waking, thereafter it is recommended with younger babies that you put them on the potty about 20 minutes after they have had a drink. I must admit I don't always catch dd but today for example she did really well. I think the praising bit and dancing around like a clown as Katie Van Pelt suggests is certainly a big incentive. Good luck and I would have thought that you will do just fine at 16 months. As I have said before, I think if you do choose to potty train earlier you have to accept that the entire process takes that much longer.
Let us know how you are going, and I will do the same
Aloha, yes 12 months does seem a little early to have completely potty trained a baby, I've no doubt that babies years ago were started at quite a young age, but I would imagine the complete process would have taken a bit longer. According to my mum's record keeping in my baby book, I was dry by day by 14 months and dry by night at 18 months ( I was born in 1964) and I think this was reasonably typical, but I'm not sure.

Melly do you think could be a matter of luck or chance that you happen to catch her at the right time, ie you sit her on the potty at around the time she would need to go? Like in the morning as you say, when most of us need to go? In this sense, it is you who is the trained one and not your dd...it is just a matter of good timing! Just because she "performs" does not mean it is a conscious effort on her part, or that she had the urge or sensation that she needed to urinate. There is a difference between spontaneously letting it all out and voluntarily controlling it! I don't mean to be such a cynic, but a child of less than around 15 months does not have the physiological maturity to either "feel" the urge or control the necessary muscles to release at will. Obviously all children are unique and maybe your dd is the exception to the rule, but the fact remains that they must be physically ready before real toilet training can start.

I don't have a problem with the song and dance routine as praise/reward, and I know you are not pressuring her in any way, but I imagine she sees it as a funny game rather than making any link between the act of "sitting" and the need to go, or the difference between being wet or dry. It has been found that some children who are "trained" too early will often revert later anyway, once the reflex urge stops and the terrible twos set in.

Personally I feel it is better to wait until the child can lead the way, undress/dress themselves, and is able to talk and use the words to say when they need to go...but that's simply IME! Having tried too early with my dd (too early for her, but probably late by some standards), I learned the hard way and waited for ds to be ready and willing - he was dry by day within a fortnight, and dry at night as well within a month (at 3yrs 2mths).

I am curious of course, and will read on with interest to see how you and your dd get on.

We had done virtually nothing about potty training until last Saturday when we put our son (3 in July) into pants for the first time. He has taken to it like a duck to water and we haven't had any accidents yet at all. Long may it continue.

But Melly he NEVER performs. I'm not too stressed but just once would be nice.... I've read the book and it says 20 mins after a drink at 9 mnths and 40 mins after at 18 mnths. I tried 30 mins and after naps/in a morning if DS wakes up not too grumpy. Part of the problem is that he only has milk at nighttime and tends to sip other dirnks on/off through the day rather than having a specific drink. I wondered about taking the plunge and leaving his nappy off one day so that I can see when he is doing it (keeping him in the kitchne/garden in the meantime).

Sounds great, Bells. Would have posted a similar message myself - our nearly 3 year old has been scampering to the loo happily for a few weeks, with the odd accident. But over this weekend, he decided to stop again and use his nappy instead. Why, why, why? Hope this is a temporary setback. I suspect he is still relying on the pull ups he wears. We need to ban them and go cold turkey for a week or two.

Bozza, yes maybe you could do as you suggest and try ds without a nappy especially now the weather is a bit nicer. Admittedly my dd does drink a lot of water so she probably pees quite a lot anyway.
Mollipops, yes I know what you mean about being lucky to catch her at the right time, I would agree that this is certainly the case when you start potty training a younger baby. The thing is, it is a very different method compared to potty training an older toddler, so the whole process is more of a very gradual learning experience, but it definitely is possible to completely potty train babies by 18 months. I did say earlier in this thread that it is acknowledged that it is very unusual to be able to completely train a baby by 15 months as the sphincter muscles are not developed enough (that is unless anyone knows differently). Thanks for not attacking me and I don't think you are being cynical at all To be honest I was expecting to get a slating and challenged about this. It's not that I don't like to debate, it's just I'm not very good at it, I read a lot but I'm not brilliant in getting my point across to others. I have strong views about what I feel is right for my dd on lots of different issues, but I entirely respect everyone's choice for when they choose to potty train or indeed any parenting issue. That's why I started this thread, more to let those interested know how I was getting on and that's why I haven't posted on the other potty training thread which is currently running challenging those who leave it quite late (IMO), I feel you have to do what's right for your child and yourself otherwise no one is happy.

I may well find that things don't go according to plan for me and dd, but you live and learn.

Will glady give anyone interested an update.

Good luck Bozza and let us know how your ds gets on.

Melly, although I wouldn't personally choose to potty train early, reading this thread, I can see it has some advantages.

Also, I think yesterday's vogue for early potty training had a sound reason behind it: I was talking to a childminder friend about potty training in the days before disposable nappies. Both her own (grown up) children were potty trained by 18 months. In common with other mothers of her day, she wanted to put an end to the increasingly awful nappy rash her babies were getting. The traditional terry nappy got wet and uncomfortable very quickly when saturated with a flood of toddler wee.

She said disposables were a mixed blessing - making life far more comfortable for older babies and toddlers, but at the expense of their parents.

Just thought I'd check in again Melly and ask how things are going?

Looking back at my earlier entries on this thread I can see a little progress. DS is now quite happy (even enthusiastic) to sit on the potty as long as there is some distraction available. I place it next to his bookshelf. And we have had a few successes and he is very excited about getting to help me to empty it down the toilet (quite obsessed by toilets currently). However I still don't think the mental link has been made.