Bringing up bilingual children

[marsup]

I noticed on the thread about 'when do they start staying mama and dada' that a few mumsnetters seem to be bringing up their children with 2 or more languages. Would anyone like to have a regular thread about this, comparing different ages/problems/advice? there seem to be a couple of relevant discussions in the archives, but not a general thread.

My DS is only 5 months so nothing but vowel sounds yet! but we speak French at home.

just a little anectode:

on our last visit to Italy dd (almost 3) was very surprised that people on the telly spoke Italian, and gain when she heard people in the street talking she said full of surprise: 'oh they speak italian!!'

she must ahve thought it was only us and a bunch of friends/relatives who did.

We found it really sweet, as it was so obvious for us!!

We met a Japanese woman who was married to a Spanish man and had a DS, and she was a bit worried because she was afraid her son find it difficult to fit when meeting Japanese people as was only learning women's japonese. Does anybody has hear something about this?

Was brought up bilingualy myself and never had any problems with it. Now speak to ds and dd in English although only my "third" language and they seem to be fine with it. However was hoping they would learn a second language from dh but he feels it is to "difficult" to speak to them in another language. Howver, he has NO problems speaking in his "mother tongue" with his friends or family!! Had numerous rows with him about it.
I do think it is important to be consistent; 1 person only speaks 1 language with the children.

Just thought I'd also say how helpful this thread is - particularly the point expatkat raised. dh and I only speak english but my mum is Bengali and I really want my ds to grow up biligual and therefore able to benefit from all the fabulous resources of the other culture that for various reasons I couldn't. However, mum only sees ds around once a fortnight and I'm looking for tips on how to encourage the Bengali bond between them. Also, do people find it weird when their children speak a language they can't understand? And do the kids take advantage of the situation??

Hi, what a good idea! I haven't read the whole thread but will after I've added my "grain de sel".

I'm French and speak French at home with my dd, who's 3.3. Her father is British but we're separated. DD is fully fluent in both French and English and she was not late speaking in either language. Before she could talk we did some baby signs (communicating with signs and gestures), and her father was doing the same, so she had the same sign for words in both languages, IYSWIM. I can't be sure but I have a feeling it helped her. At first she was mixing the two languages quite a bit but soon got the idea that they were different languages.

We go to France quite often and I try to meet with other French-speaking families. When we're outside and she hears someone speaking French she always comments on it. Our newsagent always says "au revoir" to her and that never ceases to delight and amaze her.

In February we went to Germany for a week and she was speaking with some people in French, others in English, switching effortlessly and never forgetting who spoke which language. She even picked up a few words of German! It's amazing how easy it is for small children to learn new languages. They are just sponges! My dd switches from perfect French to perfect Eastender, it's quite funny actually...

At home we have both French and English books, tapes, CDs and videos, for instance she'll happily watch a Winnie the Pooh video in French or English or even German. I read to her both in French and English but also read English books in French, translating as I go along. I always ask her which language she wants me to read in.

I myself come from a two-language family, with a German mother and a French father. I grew up in France and started out fully bilingual but my mother stopped speaking to me and my brother in German when I started going to school as she worried it might confuse us. I am not fully fluent in German, as I lack practice and vocabulary, but my accent is flawless. If I spend a few days in Germany it all slowly comes back. Still I wish my mother had carried on speaking to us in German, I'm sure she was advised to stop by well-meaning people

Someone (sorry can't remember who) mentioned a French school/nursery earlier on this thread. Where is that? I know of a couple of Saturday morning schools in London.

Senorapostrophe, I remember dd doing that, always picking the easiest word between the two languages, for instance "merci" rather than "thank you" but "please" rather than "s'il te plait".

mammya, there is one in Kensington which has a very good reputation, I know three french families in London who send their children. Can get details if you like.

alamel - I don't understand half of what my ds (10), dd (9) and dh say to each other, but I do know enough to know if bad things are being said about me! I daily wish that I spoke Welsh, but my fluent (but a bit rough and ready) Welsh speaking father and fluent Welsh understanding (but unwilling to speak it) mother didn't speak any Welsh to us. Additionally, I did Latin, French and German in the private school I went to (chosen by my parents) and no Welsh. If only they had seen into the future then I'm sure they would have allowed/encouraged us to learn Welsh! My children haven't taken advantage of the situation with me at all. They speak English to each other as I'm the primary carer and English is my only language so it's their first language. If it's a conversation with a third person involved, it's more likely to stay Welsh based. HTH.

alamel - I don't understand half of what my ds (10), dd (9) and dh say to each other, but I do know enough to know if bad things are being said about me! I daily wish that I spoke Welsh, but my fluent (but a bit rough and ready) Welsh speaking father and fluent Welsh understanding (but unwilling to speak it) mother didn't speak any Welsh to us. Additionally, I did Latin, French and German in the private school I went to (chosen by my parents) and no Welsh. If only they had seen into the future then I'm sure they would have allowed/encouraged us to learn Welsh! My children haven't taken advantage of the situation with me at all. They speak English to each other as I'm the primary carer and English is my only language so it's their first language. If it's a conversation with a third person involved, it's more likely to stay Welsh based. HTH.

Whoops! Sorry!

Thanks JMG, the one in Kensington is the main one, it's the Lycee Charles de Gaulle. Quite expensive and at the other end of London so not really practical. There is another one in Gospel Oak that I know of, which I think is just a nursery (maternelle). And I think there is also a maternelle near Hammersmith. But all these are full time nurseries, my dd is going to a local state nursery in September. But would like to hear from anyone with experience of sending their children to either of these schools. Sorry my earlier question was very badly worded.

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mammya, I mentioned the French school in Bristol, but I get the impression you're in London? Would recommend it without reservation! Don't know about the ones in London but as long as they employ qualified french staff, I wouldn't hesitate to send my child there. They learn so much from the interaction in French they get from the other children! One thing to consider though is the ratio between english pupils and french or 'truly' bilingual children at the school. It's good to have english children too, but they should be a minority, so that french really is the language spoken by all (and properly!)

Hi, we've just started down this road having recently moved. We're both English but ds goes to a French/English school, half his lessons are in French and half in English. I am delighted with the school, but hope that he will be exposed enough to the French to pick it up, what do you think? Or, alternatively do i disrupt him again and put him into our local maternelle just for complete exposure??

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Have you ever worried about lenguage delays in boys? I have suddenly came with this thought: How do I know if he has a more serious language delay? how do I know if he is delayed because of the multilingual environment, because he really have a problem or simply because he is a boy (said to speak later than girls)?

DS is 15m and babbles since he was 4m (definitively a chatter box) he seems to understand a lot but he only says 3 words: Mama, Hola and the name of the dog. Doesn't say Papa yet even though they are best friends. Also uses a couple of signs (milk, thouch no, more and gloves -he made this one himself)

By the way he had a voice vox operation at 5m. Should I worry for that?

Brilliant thread, thank you marsup.

DH English, I'm Danish. DD understands all my Danish but doesn't speak it much. As she is already 4 I am determined to really push it now before she starts school and will have many other things to learn (of course my fault to begin with that she's not already fluent ).

I am constantly asking my Mum to send books, CDs, videos etc.

What I would really like is a way of buying this stuff here. I have heard of Young European Book Club (in central London apparently) but can't find. Also really like the idea of audio books as DD has CD player in bedroom she listens to after story time. Anyone know of book club etc???

Chandra - I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'd like to help if I can. I've never heard of the operation you mentioned, so perhaps you could start a new specific thread with that title and maybe others would share their experiences? I find the knowledge that others are willing to share on MN is amazing.

About language delay in boys....I know a little lad aged about 2 and a half and he hardly says anything, but does understand everything. He knows what I say when I invite him to my house to play with my ds' train set! I speak to him in his native language as I don't know how much English he knows. I think his 2 big sisters do most of the talking for him, and perhaps he just takes advantage of them. His Mum is aware of his delay and I'm sure she takes him to his developmental checks. Sorry this reply is so long! HTH

Chandra - really don't worry. As I recall from my Mumsnet emails, 4 words at 15 months is about normal anyway. Dd only had about 10 words at 18 months, of which some she only said two or three times and then stopped. The educational psychologist at her nursery said she thought that dd was a bit delayed, but that's because she had been trying to speak in English to her with a Spanish accent (I think).

She said "look" in English yesterday for the first time - I'm so pleased!

Nimme, I have a vitually brand new Richard Scarry English/Danish book with all the little animal/people in different places and all the words for the objects around in both languages - would you like it. We are not pushing the Danish language in DS as we no longer live there and neither of us speak the language so I will gladly send it to you if you like.
I am about to leave the office so I may not get back to this thread until Monday but I will return I promise!

Mammya - there's a french primary school somewhere in Clapham, I think.

What Nimme said about being determined to push the language before school start reminded me of how much difference just a few weeks can make if you are really disciplined about it. Before we last went to see dh's family we did six weeks of intense Spanish at home (by that I mean weekends, evenings etc because the boys do 4 days a week at nursery) and the advances were incredible. The more you do it, the easier it gets to stick with that language as well.

Developmental psychologists in the USA did research with groups of people brought up with moderate amounts of exposure to a language other than english (think it was Arabic/Spanish)during childhood who then "lost" that language only to be taught it again as adults (for the purposes of the study). They found that even those participants who had stopped using the language before the age of 2 were significantly better students of the language than controls. The people who had exposure to the language in early childhood learned faster, were more likely to produce idiosyncratic sounds accurately and so on.

So even if your child is resistant to the language at the moment the exposure could be beneficial if they choose to learn the language at any point.

I think a bilingual area would be helpful.

My DH is german, and we are currently living in Germany - although going back to Australia in a few weeks. My DS started talking just recently and although 90% or more of his time is spent with me and I speak both german and english to him 7 of 8 of his words are german.

I was told I should stick to speaking english to him and let my DH do the german, but I haven't been able to help myself as I practice my german on him and I feel better speaking german with him around other mummies and our family here. Plus DH is only home weekends so far - when we are in Oz he should see more of him and I guess I should try to speak more english with him, although I think it will be a hard habit to break. What do you guys think?

We have friends in Oz like us and both their little boys are bilingual (3yrs and 20mths) but their mum only speaks english and their dad only speaks german with them.

AussieSim - So, if I understand you correctly, you've spoken German to your ds because you're currently living in Germany and it feels more natural. You must be pretty good or your vocab would have run out and you'd be struggling to speak naturally to him. What do you plan to do when you're in Australia? The situation will be the reverse, I assume? He'll pick up English naturally anyway, I suppose, so you could always continue with the German, with the added advantage of having your dh around more and it being the natural language at home. Does that help?