At what point does being reserved become being rude?

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

When child wont say hello and goodbye etc?

Am starting to find a few stumbling blocks with DD. Dont want to make it worse but, its starting to just look 'rude' when she seemingly ignores greetings.

She only initiated a conversation with a pre-school teacher last week for the first time - she's been there since September.

Oh, what to do.

Help????

Sympathies vvv, I went through this with dd1, in a big way. She is quiet and shy by nature but at a young age (she is 9 now) she was talked of as being "rude" by my parents, mainly because she didn't say hello or goodbye to them, or sometimes even acknowledge them when they spoke to her.

It is difficult to know what to do for the best, isn't it? Dh and I were adamant that she wasn't to be forced into talking to people when she didn't want to - you could see the panic in her eyes when people were watching her! Tbh it was a problem that grew until about two years ago when, after some one-to-one sessions with the SEN teacher, she learnt some good techniques for helping her to speak out in class etc. At this stage, despite being a bright child, her reluctance to talk was beginning to hold her back (as language skills are so important in a school setting). Now, she is a different child - partly because of the help she had in school, and partly because she has matured and is more confident in who she is.

All I can suggest is that, at your dd's age, I would gently encourage her to say hello, "can you say hello to x, dd1?" - which she would sometimes respond to and sometimes not. It put the ball in her court so to speak. I made a point of talking to my parents about how she was shy, not rude, and that she loved them in her own way but simply was not demonstrative (like dd2). They took it on board fortunately and apart from the odd grumble accepted her as she was. When out with other people, if she wouldn't speak, then I tried not to answer for her (VERY difficult!) but would say "oh she's just being a bit quiet today" to the person, basically so they would know it was nothing personal!

All a bit rambly, but that's the essence of her story. I still think we did absolutely the right thing not pushing her to speak until she was ready, she was so obviously frightened of doing so (she had a lot of difficulty with eye-contact too). But it did take many years to resolve.

One of DS's playgroup assistants told me the other day that she stands at the door cheerily saying hello the the children as they come in and very few actually say hello.

I wouldnt worry about it yet - my eldest is very shy and it was a real effort to get any acknowledgment of anyones existence out of him. He is now "really popular" and I spend half my time in the toyshop losing the will to live whilst trying to choose birthday presents for the numerous parties he is invited to....now starting to wish he wasnt SO popular (joke)

How old is she? She sounds too little to be worried about it beyond telling her that it's nice to say hello to people or at least smile at them when they talk to you.

Message withdrawn

She is 3.9.

The thing is, she clearly finds it hard. She always looks like a rabbit caught in headlights when confronted with someone/something she doesnt know.

There are a combination of things that make it worse. It seems that she cant hear very well, which means she wont always hear when people do talk to her. Also, what I think is as a result of her unquantifiable hearing problems, is that her speech is not so great. So, people who dont know her, struggle to understand her. I guess this knocks her already frail confidence if they have to keep asking her to repeat herself.

I've always left her to it really, and not pressured her too much, except when I think she ought to respond. I dont want her to withdraw further, but, I dont want her deemed as rude either. ( I do know how it feels, and, for all the above reasons, I so wish she wasnt like this, because I know from experience it sucks. Alot).

I was talking to another mum, well, grandparent, today. She said her GD was the same, adn she told her that unless she said hello or goodbye to the teachers when she came and went, she couldnt play on the field after pre-school. Apparently, that did the trick.

I dont want her to be the most popular in class or anything, but, I gather that she has missed out on invites to parties recently, and, well - I know its because she is the same as me. I want to fix it.

I think about 5 would be my cut-off point !!!

It's awful when you speak to a child and they look at you and ignore you !!! Several of dd's friends' do this and I do not like it. DD is always told she must answer politely when spoken to - and she is very shy too. A gentle reminder usually elicits an albeit brief response !

I thought this was going to be a thread about unfriendly mums at the school gate!

May children find it hard to even say hello to a teacher if they meet them outside the school setting. I think your dd is very young to make a big deal about it yet, especially with her hearing problems. Just keep encouraging her to say hello/goodbye and encourage other adults to do the same to her but maybe not try to get her to have a full conversation yet.

I think you also have to be careful not to label her as shy too much (in her presence) as it can become self-fulfilling iyswim...

aww bless her.. she's just sounds shy
dd is the same VVV. She's just had her 4th birthday.
If i met your little girl i would just assume she is shy (blimey i hope others do with my lo!)
dd has got better with peers slowly. It helped for us that we started doing kooky waves and big smiles rather than having to say goodbye and hello...and then once she warms up with someone she's fine now. (she used to look really selfconsious and sort of moody)
Sometimes the formal big 'Hello' can be such a barrier when you are shy though (i remember that rabbit caught in headlights feeling well myself)

KTeePee - I have been only too aware of that. I dont call her 'shy' in front of her, or when describing her to people. I think it has too many negative connotations (but thats a whole other thread).

The pre-school have been pretty fab - they are lovely. I am definitely going to send DS there.

It, just breaks my heart to see her running around after the other children. No strong bonds with any of them. Often just playing on her own.

And, like I said, it upset me to find out there had been quite a few birthday parties recently and she hadnt been invited. i dont know how many had been invited, but, I overheard a group discussing it, so there were quite a few. And, I was aware that when mentioned again, in front of me this time, it was skirted over. (Leading me to the conclusion that it was very apparent to other Mums that my DD hadnt been invited).

And now I sound totally nuts and pathetic.

I can remember I was like this at a young age, my mum used to get really embrassed. I think the thing is not to make a big issue of it, I was always labelled shy so I continued to act that way because I thought that was what was expected of me and I thought that everyone would laugh if I acted in a different way.

Dd2 used to (in the spirit of trying to protect her big sister, bless her) used to talk for dd1 and say "Don't worry about my sister, she's just shy". As you said, it had a negative effect on dd1 and she began to see it as a major failing of hers; cue a lengthy gentle chat with dd2! Hence why we used to say the "having a quiet day" thing; it took the emphasis away from her personality whilst effectively dealing with the situation.

Thanks Miaou and nogoes.

I just feel helpless.

It's a really tricky situation to handle IMO. It would be so easy to try and force her into speaking; after all it is so ingrained in us and no-one likes to appear rude (or their children to appear rude as it reflects on us!)

Are you able to address the hearing problem at this stage? Does she have a hearing aid or could she benefit from one? Has speech therapy been suggested? (If nothing else it might help with her confidence).

If you want to chat to me off-board about this vvv you are most welcome (though I am off for a bath just now, but am on MSN most evenings ). If nothing else, I've been through it with dd1 and can give you some empathy!!

aww thank you sweetie. I might just do that.

enjoy your bath. x

Do you think SALT would help? See what Moondog thinks, maybe?

{{{{{VVV}}}}}

She's such a poppet - she's getting less shy with me which is fab!

Im hoping I can get on the waiting list for a SALT. Apparently it is months and months long in my area

.

My dd 3.10 is a bit like this sometimes - seems to be going through a phase more recently - although she's fine at nursery she's been going for ages, but she's much quieter in unfamiliar situations, so not unusual.

Can you invite some of the children from nursery (individually) for play dates so that she gets to know some of them better and you get to know the mums? That might help her at nursery and get her invited to parties, as at dd's nursery invites are based partly on parents' relationships (though I know that this is a whole other thing...!).

Sauerkraut, interesting that you say that about autism/asperger's. When dd1 was being seen by the SEN teacher I did mention to her that I had slight concerns about her tendencies in that direction. The SEN teacher offered to have her properly assessed if I felt it was going to be useful - but suggested that we try other routes first to see if that helped her. Like your dd, she had to be taught to make eye contact, that a response was to be expected when she was asked a question, that it was important to talk about how she feels in a group situation (eg circle time). It was a long hard process for dd1 but she really wanted to do it and knew how important it was. The SEN was fab and we really knew dd1 had cracked it when she stood up on stage in front of 200 people and recited a (long) poem in Gaelic (not her first language!).

She is still very quiet and always will be - and there is nothing wrong with that!! - but she is now pretty confident in social situations (though new situations still leave her floored sometimes).

We are very lucky though - we are in rural Scotland and there just isn't the same pressure on resources as there is in parts of England. We got the help we needed at the right time without having to wait at all.

That's interesting about autism/aspergers - although I'm pretty sure I don't have either I have often wondered if I have some slight natural tendencies in that direction which would explain stuff in my childhood or if something in my upbringing was the cause...

mmm interesting point about aspergers. ds has aspergers ...but isn't shy (he has very little self awareness in that way) he would simply not notice that someone was talking to him or has said hello and would not read the social cues for providing an answer. I can prompt him and he's fine to answer himself.
dd knows she has been spoken to (she notices everything) and realises she is supposed to answer but is sometimes just so overwhelmed by her shyness that she cannot. I try not to be too heavyhanded with her...as i said earler once she warms up, she's fine.She'll grow out of it at some point i guess (i did)

Thank you everyone...lots to digest i think....