DS (nearly 10) has been an absolute sh!t to my parents and I don't know why (long)

[iwouldgoouttonight]

My parents have looked after DS once a week since he was a baby and I went back to work, and over the summer holidays they've had him and younger DS two days each week to help us out. They've always been lovely to both kids, take them for days out, give them treats, play with them, etc and admit they spoil them a bit.

But the last couple of times they've been DS has been really grumpy, going silent, being really uncooperative, or just being rude. My dad phoned me last night to tell me that when they looked after him on Monday and Tuesday this week DS had been absolutely vile to them. To the point my mum was in tears. Apparently he was grumpy and sullen the whole time, everything they did was wrong, eg they bought him a lemonade and he said he didn't want it he wanted a Sprite. They offered to buy a pudding for him and DS2 to share and he refused to share, and kept moaning at them to buy him a pudding of his own (which they did, I wouldn't have if he'd been like this). They took him to the park and the whole time he kept saying how rubbish it is. So they stayed at home the rest of the day and he got cross because they wouldn't let him sit at the computer all afternoon. Said their house was rubbish, the books he'd got there were rubbish, etc (even though he can take as many toys and books with him from home as he likes and he never does!)

So my dad said it's got to the point where my mum doesn't want to look after him any more. And I completely understand, why would you want to spend time with someone who is continually ungrateful when you try to do nice things with them. I've said that's fine and that we're really sorry, and if they don't want to look after him we'll make alternative arrangements. So they're going to have a think about it. I feel so bad for them though, they're so lovely and it's not fair for them to have to put up with this.

DP and I have both spoken to DS, telling him this behaviour is unacceptable and if he acts like that again he'll lose priveleges, and if my parents do decide to look after him next week, any sign of that behaviour and he'll be straight home and spend the rest of the day in his room with no toys, tv or computer.

He's been a bit unpredictable with us lately, kind of up and down mood swings, but he manages to snap out of it after a while. I think my parents are more lenient so they let him get away with more, but they do tell him off when they need to.

We've tried to find out if there is something bothering him particularly at my parents house, and he said there is something that makes him sad but he refuses to tell us what. In previous times when he's been upset about things, he's been reluctant to tell us too, and it normally turns out to be something like 'all my friends have a phone apart from me and is not fair'. But we have clue what is wrong lately.

I'm wondering whether it is early puberty hormones or something, making him overly emotional, but that still doesn't excuse the way he's been acting towards my parents.

*good book not his book

I think it's defo a preteen thing. My experience was that I had to teach my parents about the modern day preteen. My parents expectations of DS age 10 where so out of date, younger than that the generation thing didn't matter. A park is a park in whatever century your from.

I think a conversation with you, son and grandparents would be a good idea. We are all moving into a new stage of development etc etc, let's work together, but rudeness won't be tolerated. Grandparents to be a bit more ignoring the grumpiness rather than appeasing to him and the cross.

I always found it hard to explain if something had upset me. The more hurt/upset I felt the harder it was to tell.
I still do actually.

Sometimes I can feel upset without being able to put an actual finger on what's upset me.
Sometimes something hurts that you know if you say it out loud no one will understand why it upsets you and they'll just say don't be silly. But it does hurt.

So him not being able to say if something upset him may not mean there isn't anything.

Iwould: I've got a copy of that book you can have if you pm me your address? I used it with ds1 when he was about the same age (he's written in pencil on the first couple of activities but they could easily be rubbed out - in fact I just looked at it and felt sad at how he was feeling at the time! He's much better now at 15). DS1 does still have issues with anxiety so it's good to introduce activities such as those in the book as a vehicle for expressing feelings. Anyway, let me know!

Thanks knitknack, that's really kind, I'll PM you.

My dd is 12 and this summer she hasn't wanted to do anything with me and you her ds . It sounds like he is starting that stage early and is bored / embarrassed about doing baby things . I would definitely punish him for being rude but accept he may not want to do those things now and try and talk
To him about what he does want to do ( although my dd still says she doesn't know )!!

I remember an overwhelming dissatisfaction and restlessness at age 11 or 12 and also having worries and discontents that I could have articulated very clearly but was afraid to be laughed at for, which made me frustrated and grumpy. I was also the oldest and expected to make constant allowances for my not much younger sibling (she hit me but if I "told" I was silly because it couldn't have hurt as she was smaller, and if I hit back I was in a world of trouble as she was smaller... I wanted to spend the whole day lying on the sofa reading but she was bored so would whine to my parents that I wouldn't play with her and they'd tell me off for being mean/ selfish and say some fresh air would do me good and I should go outside and play with my sister etc. We also had to do a lot of "joint" activities suited to her age, she never had to tag along and wait/ watch while I did something she was too young for, and things like meals were always things she would eat regardless of whether I liked them as she was scrawny and small for her age and fussy and I was "solid" and tall so it didn't matter whether I ate.

It can be a bit miserable being the older sibling at your son's age.

It does also bare remembering that it is parents who should be "grateful" for childcare, not children!

Your child is nearly 10. The average age of first sexual abuse for boys is 9.9 years old. The most common people perpetrating abuse are relatives and caretakers. Your son has become sullen and grumpy in a place he used to be happy, and says there's something really wrong there but he can't tell you what it is.

Whatever you do, talk to your son some more about this and make sure he knows it's okay to tell you ANYTHING that's going on -- even if it might make you think worse of his grandparents, you'll never, ever love him any less. Don't follow the advice of the poster above who said to have a conversation with him and the grandparents in the same room until you've for sure established what's actually going on in that house while you are away.

Several friends of mine were abused by grandparents at near to your son's age. In each case, the child started acting weird about going to the grandparents' house, begging not to go, claiming everything there was "dirty," and various other things. But the parents in each circumstance simply couldn't believe that their lovely parents could be perpetrating abuse against their own GCs -- they were told to go there, be nice, and do whatever grandma and grandpa said.

Straighten this out now, before your son has to buy a therapist a summer house in 20 years like my friends have done.

It won't necessarily get worse when he is a teenager: he may have got used to the hormonal changes and relish his greater independence. Happened with our ds. Age 10/11 was like walking around with your own personal little rain cloud: we couldn't do anything right and there was no point in anything and the world was going to hell in a handcart (phrased in 10yo language). We still laugh about the time when we took him to the seaside and he sat on an anemone for half an hour because he was too grumpy to get up and do something: he came out in the most spectacular rash and we all felt it served him right.

He is an absolutely lovely 16yo: responsible and considerate and dependable. I am massively, massively proud of him.

There were some family issues which didn't help, but a lot of it was a mixture of hormones and a sense of powerlessness which came with greater awareness of the world around him. At 16 he has a far clearer idea of his place in his world, what he can change and what he cannot, and of his place in the family, what the limitations of family life will allow and why. And if he does find us frustrating from time to time, he knows he will soon have his own adult life.

I think at the age of 10 kids really start to see going to the park as too babyish so he may be reacting against that?

I would explain to him that he's now going to have to go to alternative childcare - e.g. a holiday club and that he may not enjoy that, but that he's got to lump it until he's old enough to be left at home while you work.

I hope you solve the problem, OP. I just wanted to comment that I think it is also useful for children to know that sometimes we feel sad for no reason.

I say that as that wasn't a concept when I was growing up so I would end up claiming and believing that whatever mildly unpleasant thing that had happened was the reason for my sadness. I was well into my twenties before I started to realise that you can be sad for no particular reason.

If he wants to talk to someone outside the family encourage him to call Childline. They will talk to him about anything however small. My DGS is 12 and can be a bit like your son but I am learning to let it wash over me and I know he loves me really!

I agree with previous posters that the behaviour you've described sounds pretty normal for a grumpy pre teen. I'm not suggesting that he should get away with being rude, but I think it helps to remember that a lot of kids go through this stage. It's completely normal for a 10yo to want his own pudding and to find playing on the computer more fun than going to the park. Obviously it's sad for you to hear that your mum was in tears, but I don't think it's quite fair to your DS to describe him as vile and an absolute shit.

I do think maybe it's time for the grandparents to stop providing childcare, presumably they are getting on, and are probably finding it tiring to care for two active young boys. Maybe it's time to find a different childcare solution.