Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Original poster

Advice please? 3 year old daughter at Nursery....

57 replies

Tups · 24/01/2007 19:28

Hi,
Long story, narrowed down to.... Our 3 year old daughter started nursery last week. She's shy of new people & won't talk to strangers etc. I got pulled in on Monday as she is "un-coperative" and "rude" because she will not answer when spoken to or join in (unless she wants to, like most kids I thought!). Today she has just told my mother in law (I'm at work) that one of the ladies told her "you are a grumpy little girl"
I'm furious but don't want to rock the boat, should I say something? Also, because she wouldn't ask them to do her coat up, she said she had to go outside with it undone (and we had snow today), is this right or are they proving a point by getting her to ask for things?
I want to go headstrong in there and create merry hell but I thought I would see if anyone had a more calming approach...!
Thanks ..

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
Elasticwoman · 25/01/2007 19:03

If you're not happy it is certainly worth complaining. You're the customer in this situation. If staff won't listen to you, complain to the school governors. I complained once about an aspect of nursery class procedure when dd1 was at that stage and although I had a letter back explaining patiently that I was wrong and they were right, things DID change. And you've got nothing to lose. Things are not going to get worse for your child because of any conversations you may have with adults.

Original poster
Tups · 25/01/2007 23:17

Hi, I'm going to have a word tomorrow about the coat issue and go from there......I may even mention about her saying Amie was a "grumpy little girl" and see what reaction I get.I'll keep you all posted. Amie doesn't react kindly to people she is not over familiar with, I thought this would be a fun time for her! Although she does enjoy being there, she won't mingle with the other kids either, she tells me she ignores them!! ALthough she has played with other kids, this is a new experience so is a learning curve.........I'll probably get 100 lines tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
sunnysideup · 26/01/2007 09:44

definitely definitely speak up and face them with the grumpy little girl comment. It is totally unprofessional and inappropriate.

At ds first preschool, the 'teacher' made a comment about ds (said he was whiny - which showed me just how nasty she must be being to him as ds is many things but the funny thing is that he has never ONCE in his LIFE whined - me and dh and others have commented on it saying aren't we lucky he doesn't do whiny!!!!!!!!!!!!) and though I dealt with it and moved him and wrote a letter to them saying why, I never faced her with this crap comment.

I should have said to her how unprofessional it was. These people should be faced by people telling them that comments like this are just rubbish teaching.......go for it, you'll regret it if you don't I think! And be STRONG - it's totally inappropriate for them to let your dd out without her coat done up. Obviously they want her to learn to ask but a more professional way to do it would be to keep prompting her, to tell you so that you can remind her, perhaps to put it down as one of her targets........

Biglips · 26/01/2007 10:12

ive just read this and im so horrified that they expected your DD to do her coat up and she is only 3!!! AND i would be very angry if any of the teacher told my dd that she is a grumpy little girl. If u didnt know about all this,it would've of put a dent in your dd's shy confidence and it would make her even more shy

ill have a word to the nursery manager and if no improvement, take her out and go elsewhere.....also i would speak to other parents if you can

Good luck xxx (mine is starting in October - eek)

Biglips · 26/01/2007 10:15

Tups - lol @ doing 100 lines tmrw as long youre a good girl you wont be doing them!

Elasticwoman · 26/01/2007 11:10

How did you get on with the nursery staff, Tups? Re mingling with other kids: it can be quite a while before they play with, rather than alongside other children and there's nothing wrong with that.

Original poster
Tups · 26/01/2007 13:29

Hi, I didn't get lines lucky for me (I would have cheated and used the computer to copy and paste anyway!!)
Well, I picked her up today, she was good girl and did not cry for me this morning again and also came to me at home time (she doesn't do this).
I had a word, they informed me that they have asked her "do you want me to do your coat up?" and she just turns her head and ignores them!! Yes, she does do that and it does come across as rude but give her a break eh!? So, as she ignores them and walks off, they leave her to her own and leave it undone!
Next, I asked them about their "grumoy little girl" comment and it transpires that the other children are picking up on this and saying she is rude for not answering or saying anything (but the question was never directly answered). I thought she was a bit shy but she is not because she will go up and talk to the teachers and even hold their hand and things BUT ........(sorry, going on a bit here!!) if they say would you like to do ...A or B she will not answer and just turn her head away and scowl (she's got a great scowl). I was told by the teacher that she has been teaching since 1970 and she has comw across this before but NEVER a child as stubborn as Amie!! I just said to her that thre was a first time for everything (at least they won't forget her in her hurry!!). They also sais that if she ddn't answer and was made to sit there for two and half hours and do nothing rather than answering, then they had no doubt but do it and it would NOT bother her in the slightest (their words!) and I agreed!! The whole point is if she doesn't join in, it really doesn't matter to her. When we left, apart from the fact that I had taken up half an hour of their lunchtime (good!) Amie then decided to speak to them and she got a lot of praise for it (from the old drgon)! Typical. When we got home, her Nanny said Hello and she completed blanked her so I told her to sit on the naughty stair until she could speak and say hello so we had a tantrum (which is actually unusal for her), it was more crocodile tears and noise than a tantrum but we got there in the end.
Phew, sorry about al that, next installment on Monday!! The long of short of it is that I told them we were working on her ignoring people at home and the continued SUPPORT and EFFORT fromthem would be appreciated.....I thought this nursery lark was going to be easy!!! lol

OP posts:
Elasticwoman · 26/01/2007 14:07

That was a sly move, blaming the peer group for the "grumpy little girl" business. Children will pick up on adult signals. I believe the staff are making things worse by drawing attention to her refusing to answer. So long as she behaves in a reasonably obedient fashion eg sits on the carpet with the others when it's story time, stops playing and helps clear up at the end, I think they should cut her some slack.

They should tell her directly that it's not allowed to go out without your coat done up in this weather and she must either do it up herself or let them do it, or stay indoors.

amidaiwish · 26/01/2007 17:46

isn't the thing to do to just ignore this behaviour and praise good?
why don't they just leave her be... she will join in in her own time. jeez, plenty of children are like this out of awkwardness/shyness, not bloodymindedness. it's not like she's saying horrid things, just not saying anything.

the supposedly qualified childcare experts at nursery should know better - surely going on at her is just backing her into a corner? where's her way out without totally losing face?

gingermonkey · 26/01/2007 19:35

AGH!!!!! SHE'S 3, AND LIKE ALL 3 YEAR OLDS - THEY ARE AWKWARD, THEY THROW TANTRUMS, THEY ARE 'GRUMPY' AND CAN BE SO DAMN STUBBORN YOU COULD BANG THEIR HEADS AGAINST A WALL!!!!! Ooops, I'm shouting at the dragon!!! At least your LO has some spirit, and IMO those children are never dim! Well done for saying something, and good luck for next week.

hotandbothered · 26/01/2007 19:38

This all sounds so sad... Surely nursery should be fun? I agree with amidaiwish - they would be much better off ignoring it when she ignores them. That way she doesn't get attention for it. Also then the other children wouldn't have anything to pick up on. How do you normally handle it at home? My dd does it quite a lot too...

clairemow · 26/01/2007 19:48

how can they know she's so stubborn after just a few days??!! How can they differentiate between a "stubborn" 3 year old (aren't they all????!!! - echo Gingermonkey...) and a SHY, nervous 3 year old? I know lots of toddlers who, faced with making a choice, would rather you decided for them. Perhaps she's afraid (given how the first few sessions have gone with the dragon...) that if she makes a "wrong" choice, she'll be told off...

I think if she's not crying any more, then she's doing fantastically well and being really brave!

mummymagic · 26/01/2007 20:03

I am quite shocked! They have turned her shyness into a behaviour problem?! I am a secondary teacher (of the hardest, rudest gangsta wannabes in Hackney - so prob a little more stubborn than your small child ffs) and wouldn't deal with this issue like this. I would be trying lots of different approaches eg giving a 'buddy', building up attachment to one teacher/student, giving lots of opportunity for non-threatening chat and inclusion and 'what a lovely chat we had about...' when necessary. Maybe some firmer 'this one or this one' type encouragement...

but

How dare they suggest you deal with her behaviour by punishing! That damn supernanny, there are other ways to address a 'problem' rather than just punishing all the time. Jeez, she is 3 years old and in a new place - I expect some 11/12 yr olds to behave like this in a new school so they should cut her some slack.

Gosh, this has made me so cross. You have my support, please don't think your child is at fault here. And if she needs to cry because she is sad, well that might not be such a bad thing if you then say 'right, so what are we going to do to make tomorrow happier?'. Best wishes

amidaiwish · 26/01/2007 21:23

d'you know, this thread has been on my mind a lot the past couple of days.
mummymagic, really glad you have made these points... Tups, i feel so sorry for your little girl. Please just give her a hug and tell her it'll all be ok. xxx

kickassangel · 26/01/2007 21:45

i agree with a lot of the posters. the workers don't sound totally evil, but rather set in their ways. i would expect a child her age to be quiet at first, particularly if this is her first time away from you. yes, you probably do need to teach her that scowling & ignoring is 'rude' (we wouldn't accept it from adults), but there are gentle, persuasive ways of achieveing this. can you suggest the buddy scheme to them? as soon as she has a friend she'll be fine!
perhaps stickers & extra hugs, treats when she smiles at people, or talks to someone new would also help!

helenhismadwife · 27/01/2007 12:18

Hope you dont mind me posting here, it sounds like despite her shyness she is settling at the nursery she isnt crying and probably in time she will get used to the staff.

I have to agree with what a lot of the others have said though the staff dont sound very caring there are ways of dealing with shy children who wont talk and they do sound like they are making a issue of it, which is just want a shy child doenst need. they could ask her about her coat being done up for instance and if she doesnt answer say something like 'well I think its cold and you should have it done up' and just do it up if she wont answer about playing etc do something similar such as 'I know lets sit here and draw/paint/read that will be fun' its all about giving her confidence to join in and she will.

my dd has just started at nursery she is 31 months, we live in france and at the moment her understanding of french is minimal but even though she doesnt understand what is being said to her she can tell when she is being told not to do something and being praised the staff are very caring.

I hope things improve for you and your dd

Socci · 27/01/2007 12:29

Message withdrawn

Socci · 27/01/2007 12:34

Message withdrawn

Elasticwoman · 27/01/2007 12:52

Helen, why are you apologising for posting? Especially as what you had to say was so relevant.

mumeeee · 28/01/2007 15:32

The nursery was out of order. If she only started last week, it will all be new and strange to her and she needs a chnce to settle in. In all the nuseries I have worked in there has been a settling in period and the children are encoraged gently to join in. This is often over the first month and can take longer.
Go and speak to the nursery and ask them what thier settling in policy is.

sdlc · 28/01/2007 16:10

I manage a private day nursery with two pre-school rooms. I think its totally out of order to label a 3 year old child let alone a child who is new to the setting! A good nursery in my opinion would firstly expect a longer settling in period so that the childs confidence grows as he/she gets to know the group, and if they still had concern they should look at adapting activities or rotines to encourage a child who may be a bit shy. They could also suggest ways that you can help at home so that you are working together. Was there a settling in procedure? we offer 3 free visits for parents and child to come and chat to staff and meet the group and discuss childs individual likes/dislikes etc. perhaps you should suggest this to them. i would certainly ask to have a chat with the manager, pre-school is a really important time and needs a good relationship between staff and parents.

helenhismadwife · 28/01/2007 18:03

thank you elastic

NAB3 · 28/01/2007 18:22

I would be fuming if my child was called a grumpy little girl. My daughter has been going to nursery since June and she still won't say bye to the staff. It was so difficult in the beginning but they have worked with us, listened to my suggestions, come up with their own and gone the extra 10 miles to help her settle in. She loves it there now.

Original poster
Tups · 29/01/2007 13:25

Hi al, thankyou for all your words of encouragement and support, it means a lot.
Settling in period: we visited the school at the end of November for the 1st time, for about 40 minutes, we then had a home visit for about the same time in January about 10 days before she started. Then on her 1st day, we were both there for an hour and then we both went home, then Tuesday was her first morning on her own and that was that. They did phone me and said after about 2 or 3 minutes she had stopped crying (result, but I hadn't!!). Anyway, I thnk she does enjoy it there and someone made a point that they think the "dragon" as I shall refer to her as is set in her ways. I am in agreeance with the point about the voat issue. Well, it's Monday and today she had PE in the "big" hall (the scholl hall), as she would not ask for help or answer the teachers she had to do it in her jumper and not her t shirt (oh well) and wen I picked her up, she had her socks in her hand! She sai because she did't say "please help me" they did not put her socks on for her!! Although she can actually do it herself the lazy thing! She is actually a quite a show off and is a very polite, intelligent little girl who can count to quite a high number, knows her colours and alphabet but because she won't do it when they want, they make a point by not doing it! If that makes sense! I can understand their way of thinking to a degree but surely, as someone else mentioned, you need to adapt to each child individually. Other mums have had problems their aswell so I know I am not alone..luckily! I think we will wait until end of term and then I will take in my diary of evrything I have written down and take in my other half for support (he is very arrogant and comes across as rude but will give her what for!!) and do it that way.
With regards to being at home, I try not to give too many choices as it confuses Amie, but if she ignores me (cos her mind is elsewhere) then I either turn the tv off or get her to stop what she is doing so she her focus is on me and what I am saying. Threats are good as I always go through with them, but she knows it and normally is pretty good with me. Maybe I'm a strict old dragon aswell!!! (NOT!) Ame seems pretty happy with it there though, although she won't eat the fruit/veg or water/milk (she doesn't like it!) but I'm fine with that as she sits with them and when she gets home, she is so hungry and eats so much so I really am not bothered (if she was that hungry or thirsty she would eat and drink whatever!!).
Right, I seem to be going on a nit now so I shall leave you all for the time being and cathch up later or tomorrow.
PS Thanks mummymagic about your comment "behaviour problem", I don't think she has and I think you are right about that's what they are doing. Glad I didn't have her a teacher whan I was little (mind you I did have a strict primary school teacher and used to make up illnesses so I didn't have to go!!!!). Our daugter is a normal 3 year old who will not take anything from strangers or speak to strangers, obviosuly this will take time but I am trying not to take it personally.......x

OP posts:
Original poster
Tups · 29/01/2007 13:28

BTW: appologies for my spelling, typing quick and not checking the spelling as going through!!!

OP posts: