3 yo can't spend more than 10 SECONDS alone.

[charlieq]

Sorry this is long, but I need advice from other mners because my DS's behaviour is frankly worrying me a bit.

He is obsessively sociable and literally WILL NOT be alone for a moment- unless he is with a friend of the same age, or the telly/a DVD that he likes is on, and then he will totally ignore you until something comes on he doesn't like/there's an argument with the friend.

He wants not only to be with you but almost ON you all the time. If you walk around in the house, he is always right behind you. If you are doing anything he ALWAYS has to be right in it, asking you questions, usually demanding to be allowed to do it himself or making some other demand (I want juice, I want telly, are usual ones). I do try to involve him in practical things but when it comes to cooking on the gas hob, etc, that ain't going to happen. That is when he starts getting arsey, being deliberately irritating, often shouting or making silly noises non stop to get attention. He will NEVER voluntarily leave a room I am in.

He has a room full of toys which might as well be in the charity shop. Today I found myself issuing ultimatums to actually get him to go upstairs by himself and play with them. He doesn't actually enjoy playing with them with me or DH either very much, either wants to run around, rough house (not good for me, I am 30 wks pg) or do 'adult' things like go on the computer. He doesn't particularly want to do any of the things I'd like to do with him like cooking, drawing, or practising writing etc- he gets bored with those very quickly, starts asking for the telly etc. Which really drives me insane.

He is usually with a nanny atm, 5 days pw. She says he is just the same with her & she has not looked after a child quite like him before- she thinks he is a real eccentric, obsessed with being in control and being a grown up!

All partly true, but I am really quite concerned about his total lack of ability to stimulate himself, and very worried about how things are going to be come April when I will be at home with a newborn and him. He is in nursery a.m., but afternoons and holidays are going to be hell. I have already lost my rag with him today.

Does anyone have similar experiences? How do you deal with it? Do children like this ever change???

Hi Charlieq; I hope someone will be around soon to advise, because I'm in the same boat !

My ds, the youngest of 4, is 3y + 1m, and at morning playgroup Mon-Fri. The rest of the time he's with me. Like you, it's a full-on "with"...

I can't nip upstairs by myself to fetch something quickly, can't leave him playing in his own room at all, etc etc. He roars in anger or distress if i try. At weekends it's a little better, because his siblings are at home all day, but I'm still his beacon and he won't let me out of his sight.

He loves playgroup and says "Bye" to me quite happily, so I don't understand this separation anxiety he seems to have the rest of the time.

Apart from this he's a normal bright chatty and curious little boy who loves cars, trains, animals, counting things, big sticks and other boyish things !

Any advice out there ?

wanderingstar do you think this is primarily a 'personality thing'? it sounds as if your other 3 were different.

DS has never been an easygoing sort of little chap. Very demanding as a baby, always needed entertainment, holding, etc.

Was yours similar?

Hope someone comes up with some answers on this thread soon as my ds is exactly the same. Was a very demanding baby and has stayed demanding at 3 yrs and 7 months!! I literally cannot leave the room for more than 2 mins. It is particularly bad when he is ill/under the weather. I have been in the situation before where he had been ill with gastroenteritis all week, given it to me and I had to go to the loo with him on my knee...not easy!! He is normally fine at nursery which he goes to mon-fri 9.30 to 11.30 am but even when playing with other children at our house I have to be around. It is incredibly frustrating and I cant help wondering whether I have inadvertantly "made" him like this? My MIL says my dh was exactly the same.

Yes I'm afraid I do ! Of course most if not all little ones have spells of wanting their mums around them the WHOLE time, but this behaviour, to this intense degree, is something unfamiliar to me. Dh and I are baffled by it all. I'd like to think we provide a warm and loving environment at home, with secure boundaries for the children. It seemed to work through the toddler years with the others, but not for ds3. Yes I'd say my ds has always been very high maintenance. At the moment one manifestation of his desire to be with me ALL the time, is that he isn't even a reliably good sleeper. We've done a star chart whereby he gets a sticker if he stays all night in his room, but sometimes at 3am I admit my willpower isn't the strongest..

One idea I'm thinking of trying, once the sleep is more entrenched (chart has been on the go for about 10 days, with 7 stickers), is to do a similar chart for daytime behaviour, eg. no yelling and fussing if i nip into the kitchen to make a cup of tea/ no throwing toys about and wrecking puzzles if I take a phone call. Ideally of course building up to a sticker IF YOU PLAY WITH THE BLOODY BRIO ALONE FOR 3 MINUTES.

sORRY unintentional capitals but actually it expresses how i feel.

Maybe the sticker thing is worth a try for us both ?

Have to go now; was posting while he was in the bath with his sister in the room next door. But he's out, so I'll check in later to see if anyone has any more ideas, or if there are any more of us out there with velcro toddlers. At least we're not alone, charlieq and becaroo.

Yes, that is actually a comfort wanderingstar. My ds is also a bad sleeper (has been from 4 days old!) I know just what you mean about the 3am thing too But sometimes you are just so damn tired it is easier to let them in and have a cuddle but then before you know it, its 6am and time for another day with the amazing velcro child!! (I adore him, by the way!) Has really put me off having another though as I just do not know how I could cope with the demands of a newborn and ds too.

My dd 3.4 always preferred people to toys. As a baby, she would scream if I left her on her back. She needed to be carried everywhere and stimulated. Never played with rattles. Did not know the meaning of toys until a year old. Separation anxiety from 5 months. Appalling sleeper even with co-sleeping. Rejected bottles, breast-only girl. Cannot be alone in a room.

In nursery, she is much better at amusing herself, but at home, she is very clingy.

chaelieq, you asked if children like this change. I do think it is a personality thing and to a large extent will always be a people person. lol at "obsessively sociable" - I prefer to think of it as extroverted.

But dd is much better now. I thought it would be a nightmare now that I also have a ds (4 months) - who seems similarly high needs. But in between squealing for me, she will do colouring and watching DVDs for 10-15 mins at a time, if the mood strikes. She seems to accept that baby takes precedence - ok, sometimes.

Her personality also makes her extremely loving (she will hold my face in both hands and kiss me and says "I love you"). She loved her baby brother from the word go and has to see him first thing when she wakes.

I think there are lots of positives associated with this sort of personality, even tho it is a PITA a lot of times!

How I deal with dd is to arrange playdates as much as is humanly possible when I am alone with her and ds. That way, her friend keeps her amused and I get on with ds.

That way, I just do a few snacks and toilet runs and let them loose in a room of toys!

this is (sort of) reassuring- lol becaroo at the toilet thing- I have had to do that SO many times. It took months to get him to accept that I was going to shut the door while going, and even now he will keep a (usually noisy) vigil outside it!! and does the exact same to his nanny!

As I post he is in the bath, I have the door open and can see him from here but he is deliberately gurning at me and drinking water so as to get me to go back in there! He would rather have negative attention, than none at all.

Blueshoes it sounds like your daughter has changed before my ds- he is now 3y 6m- and I do like the idea of extrovert, no doubt he IS one but I do see his sociability as obsessive simply because he seems to get so tense about it and it dominates his life (and mine). I really hope he does just grow up into a nice warm 'people person' -he can be very warm, but it's on his terms, and if you want to give him a hug, he usually ain't giving. Usually I find he just wants to shadow me/ boss me about!!

He's never been a bad sleeper as such but often just won't go to bed- creeps down the stairs to sit outside the lounge, appears suddenly behind us in the kitchen at 9pm. Also went through a long phase of 'bad dreams' at 2/3 am and wanting us to put him back to bed- but this stopped suddenly and inexplicably a month ago. After recent star chart and reward of a Dr. Who duvet set the going to bed has improved, now we have him working toward a Spiderman outfit!

wow, my DS is similiar - thought it was just me being a no good mum! Plus DS is an only so has added to my guilt. Have releaised it is partly his personality now. He can get on with something that really interests him for a while but otherwise likes to follow me aorund and to be in the same room as me. He is really loving to me and DH which helps, but sometimes does tire me out.

We do this to get him used to time alone. Say on a saturday morning DH and I want to do some house jobs etc, we say Mummy and Daddy have got jobs to do and we're going to do them for 20 minutes, then we'll all do something together for a while. He didnt like it at first but is alright with it now, though likes to be in the same room.

Phew - glad it's not just me! I too have DS1 who is 3 1/2 and is 'velcro boy'. He's always been like this and I've come to accept that is just the way he is. He tells me he loves me several times a day, wakes up in the night crying for me cos I'm not right there and is generally very sweet and loving. But he totally accepts that I have to go to work 3 days a week and is very happy at nursery and if I'm not around. It's just if I'm in the house he has to be in the same room - won't ever play in his bedroom unless I go with him.

I don't have any suggestions - I'm just hoping that he grows out of it. I'm sure when he's 14 and doesn't want anything to do with me I'll be here moaning about that!

Hi Charlieq. Haven't read the whole thread so this might repeat what others have said. My DS 3.6 is and always has been the same, he got worse when I was preg and much worse when DD was born (he was only 20mnths though so this may have been just his age). Your DS may be reacting to your pregnancy and unfortunately is likely to get worse when you have the baby. I thought my DS's behaviour was normal until others commented but I don't think its anything worrying, just exhausting. DD (now 22mnths) is much more independent. I tried to just accept it as much as possible (though I have lost my temper a few times). He goes to nursery and although he panics a bit when I leave he plays happily with friends so no social problems. We had a bit of a brekthrough when I got him a power ranger video ( this may be of no help to you) as he said his friend played power rangers and he didnt know what it was and felt left out. Since then he plays imaginative games involving power rangers, we got him some figers for Xmas and he plays with those. Usually I have to get them out and start him off then he plays and I can sneak off. He still comes looking for me after a while but at least he can now amuse himself a little. I think they just have to learn how to do it rather than rely on someone to entertain them. I hope this helps a little. J

I think that is a fair point about the pregnancy. My sister had a lot of trouble with her ds when her other ds was born (although there was only 14 months between them) My ds is an only child so I suppose I have a real worry that I have in some way caused this behaviour, but I dont know what I did!! My ds is also very loving and sweet but it is just so exhausting.

hm yes perhaps my pregnancy could be making it worse. He keeps 'patting' my bump and trying to sit on me in a very uncomfortable fashion. Also the new pram arrived today and he got really obsessed with getting inside the box, and then for the first time in ages did a poo in his pants! He looked quite shocked by that himself, however, & kept saying 'sorry mummy' as I grumbled about cleaning it up....

However none of that quite explains why he is the same with his nanny, and his dad if alone with him. He does seem to be 'high needs' and I just wish I got cuddled and told that he loved me as often as some of you seem to be!! He seems keen to provoke negative attention, anything other than be alone, and sometimes I wonder if he has some sort of mild 'attachment disorder' (whatever they actually are)....

Hi Charlique and Becaroo. You both sound like really lovely mums to me, the very fact that you are concerned rather than dissmissive says it all so I'm sure you haven't caused any problems in your boys (it does seem to be more a boy thing). My nephew is an only child and my sil was worried he was v. needy until we had ds who she said was v similar (my nephew is now 11 and perfectly independent happy boy). And Charliq, I got really upset when I had DD as DS was often horrible to me. I just made masses of effort to reasure him and put up with the clingyness. He used to sit on my lap when I changed her nappies (not easy to do)and always wanted attention when I breastfed her, I used to feed her and carryon playing at the same time. I found carrying baby in a sling so that i could keep playing with DS (even bathing him with her in a sling) helped. The biggest problem was getting any kind of time alone with baby which is probably how she ended up in my bed everynight! The good news is there is minimal jealousy between them and she is v. placcid child. Good luck. J

This morning my sons nursery teached called me over and told me that she thinks that he not independant enough. She feels that as he has been there since Sept. that he should now be putting his own coat, taking it off and putting it on the peg. (Although we have since realised that his peg is right in the corner and he finds this difficult because of that.) Am REALLY upset as it confirms everything I have posting recently..I have made him too dependant on me and he is very reluctant to do anything himself i.e: get dressed, put coat on. she also said that they sometimes have to take him to the toilet which she feels they should not have to do. My instinct tells me that he is only 3 and that he will grow out of it but i felt like a naughty schoolgirl getting a dressing down! He has also been quite unwell since before xmas (tonsilitis, chest infection etc) and I think he is more clingy because of that. HELP!!!!!!

becaroo, your ds is only 3 - I think the nursery is expecting too much. No doubt it would make THEIR lives easier if your ds could do more things for himself, but don't let them make you feel small, ok?

My dd 3.4 has days when she feels independent but mostly wants me to dress her, assuming she will let me get her dressed in the first place! And it is their right to be babied when poorly or when feeling insecure because of a new sibling. Our dcs will do it when they are ready.

My DS is still a bit little for this kind of thing (19 months) but I did once see a parenting programme which featured a little boy who was very unhappy about being left on his own. They suggested that rather than being annoyed by it the mum should instead be excessively affectionate - lots of big cuddles and kisses all the time, that kind of thing. I seem to remember that within a couple of days he was pushing her off and quite happy to run around on his own.

Sorry, I think there was a bit more to it than that but I definitely remember that being one of the elements. As I'm not speaking from personal experience here I fully understand that I maight seem a bit rude offering me advice so please feel free to tell me to shut up!

oh becaroo that nursery sound a bit out of order to me. I hate nurseries that automatically Blame The Mother- it sucks.

When my DS started nursery he used to stick his arms out in the air as a signal to whichever slave was in the area to take his coat off for him! The nursery teacher asked me before he started if he could do various things for himself, & I said er, no, but but she just calmly said 'well, he will' and that has been the case. They did not expect me to manage his behaviour while with them.

At home he would usually winge or run off, etc whenever I asked him to do things for himself, or protest dramatically 'I can't dooooo it' over shoes etc (he still does this at times but I don't believe him any more!!).
I found out last month from the nursery that he was going to the toilet completely by himself and since then I haven't accepted the 'but I cannnnnn't mummy' excuse.

YOu have not made him dependant- & I know I haven't with DS because for a start I am in more-than-full-time work doing a PhD- if anything I feel his behaviour may be a demand for MORE attention from me.

We appear just to have given birth to natural little princelings (nb though I don't actually believe in astrology, I am told that DS is a 'triple Leo', bossy, regal etc.- which seems accurate).

Thanks guys...was just so upset this morning. The thing is, he is such a lovely little lad, vey affectionate and fun loving and I dont really want him to change. I may just have a word on monday and tell them to deal with it. He is only in their care for 2 hours a day, I know of 3 children there who arent potty trained yet so Tom is not the only one to need extra attention. NB: Up to last year they did not accept children who were not potty trained, which I think is terrible. Some kids just take longer than others. I suppose they are trying to prepare him for school next january, but I'm afraid that my son, like most other children, will do things when he is good and ready and not before!!

I hope you dont mind me commenting here, my two youngest dd's are not like this at all but one of my older ds's was. I was worried like you all are, but he grew out of it in his own time and now at 14 likes to be as far away from me as possible in the nicest possible teenage way I hope

to be fair to the nursery they are probably trying to prepare them for reception as well. i used to help out in ds school nursery class last year and the children soon got the hang of hanging their coats up (ALTHOUGH I WOULD BE THERE AT BREAK TO HELP THEM DO IT UP if it was cold and to give them a hand if needed) think the point was they were trying) and going to the toilet when they knew they had to. if you are doing cutting with 8 childen the teacher cant just get up and leave them to it to go to the toilet with one. maybe not good example but what im trying to say is it might be something they cant be left on their own to do. also it will be a much harder lesson to learn in reception.

saying that i do far too much for ds 5 dress and undress him all the time, feed breakfast, he lies in my arms before bed having his milk. (did i just admit to that) thats me keeping him my little baby! lol

the biggest mistake i made was expecting him to know what to do with a new toy. i'd give it to him and expect him to know what to do with it. he plays much better if i sit and explain everything about it.

I agree. My DC go to the nursery at the hospital where I work part time and have done since babies. The nursery is great and don't really expect much at all, probably because they are used to much younger kids. My DS is much more independent at nursery than at home (I am always surprised at what he does there and not at home), but there really is no pressure. Maybe pre school nurserys are a bit different to our nursery. I think its ok to do things for them at home as they need to feel cared for, especially when coping with being out in the world. DS will often say "I'm not a big lad I'm just little" when I'm trying to encourage him to do things / act his age and within reason it reminds me that 3 is still young. I think since having DDwhen DS was just 20mnths I've expected him to be older than he is. If you cant lie on mums lap to drink your milk at 3yrs old, when can you? J

Yes jackie I agree