child psychologist at 4

[elfsmum]

following on from my other thread about the schools telling me my son isn't showing remorse at 4 - I have been called in to see the head today.

He tells me there have been a few incidents over the last 2 weeks where DS has hit another child for no reason - today he allegedly walked over and scratched a little girl on the face because she was first in line and he wanted to be - clearly this is unacceptable behaviour.

I've now been told that they are going to log his behaviour and if no improvement is noted he wants to refer him to a child psychologist.

We have rules about not hitting at home, and if he does then he is given time out, naughty step etc. We have an older son, who does wind him up, and DS2 reacts to him, sometimes by hitting. So we also discipline DS1 for winding him up in the first place.

I am at my wits end, he certainly isn't wilfully destructive or hurtful at home, he often shows great displays of affection, he is gentle with his pets, although I have seen him reacting pyhsically to his brother, at home his behaviour isn't like some of the children you see on supernanny or the like, but obviously the school is concerned enough, I don't want my child to have to see a psychologist, what else can I do ??

can you suggest they do something similar at school? if ds2 hits, scratches someone what is their punishment? maybe you could suggest that to keep it in line with what you are doing at home he has to go and sit on a "naughty table" facing the wall. do they also have a points system? when i was at school we had points and if we were naughty one got taken away. you could say to ds2 i am going to check every week how many points you have. if you get so many points you get a small treat or a £1 or whatever.

I would say go with it, get to the bottom of things. I only wish that my son saw professionals earlier on. There could be nothing in it, but just in case, it is better to see a psychologist. Now I am getting appointments for this professional and that professional, and well needed too. My son first seemed to exhibit a lack of empathy for others and has just been diagnosed with Asperger's. Of course, I am not even slightly suggesting that this could be the case with your son, but I think it would be a very good thing to meet with the Psychologist. I only wish my school tackled the problem with my son earlier.

Hi Elfsmum, I am a child psychologist, and have worked alot in schools.
From what you have said it sounds a flimsy basis for a referral,IME however schools get very little psychologist time and so only usually refer if they are very concerned.
It could be that they are just not effectively managing his behaviour, before they refer they should have had him on a behaviour programm which they involve you in and review reguarly (just doing the sorts of things you describe you're doing, but consistently and trying differnt approaches to see what works for him.)
If you and they feel this is not progressing THEN they may decide to refer. They cannot refer however without your consent, a psychologist cannot see a child without parental consent, so if you are unhappy at this stage please remember you retain the control.
I would also reassure you however that seeing the psychologist is not like a psychiatrist, or necessariyl an indication something is wrong. the psychologist may not even see your son he/she may meet with you, and DS's teacher and then make some suggestions to the school for managing his behaviour. They might observe your DS in class, without him or other children being aware it's for him (I have spent alot of time pretending to be an OFSTED inspector.)

If they do refer, ask to meet with the Psych first yourself to find out what they are planning to do, and only then give your consent if you are happy.

hope that helps a bit.

thanks for the advice, and reassurance, I saw the head this morning and have advised that DS2 trip to get a video at the weekend has been withdrawn, and that he will only be allowed to start his gym classes at 5 IF he stops hitting for no reason - and that I want his teachers to know this and to use this to modify his behaviour at school too.

We have spoken to DS1 too and told him he has to stop winding him up as we have to help him to stop hitting when annoyed.

In class his behaviour is good, he was in private nursery from 4 months until school and I never had any complaints, and I don't witness him hitting for no reason at home, whatever is going on happens at playtime.

I have asked the head to ensure any incident he is involved in clearly explains the situation, who else was involved and how he reacted, as I want to understand why he is doing what he is doing, and that it is unprovoked and not that he is reacting to what another child has done to him.

I also suggested a reward chart for playtime and lunchtime.

It does seem a bit heavy handed that the school isn't suggesting these things, and going straight for a psychologist.

Will play it be ear now and see how we go.

It may be that they have the ed psych in to see another child and just want her to have a quick look.

HOwever any ed pysch worth their salt would tell the school to use ABC - A- antecendent- what happened to trigger the behaviour B- what the behaviour is C- what the consequences were. So you've asked them to do exactly that anyway.

elfsmum - it might also be worth asking the school if they can instigate a bit of structured play at breaktimes too.
My son had real difficulties at playtimes and lunchtimes in his early school years, and he always seemed to get into trouble. It transpired that he felt scared in amongst all those children, and the noise didn't help.
It helped when the school set aside some time for a small group of children to play a ball game with a TA, and sometimes they supervised a small group who stayed inside and did a jigsaw - if their behaviour had been excellent.
It helped for my DS to have something to work towards, and also to know he wasn't forced to face the playtime crowds without support.

How lucky you got the advice of a child psychologist ! As she has said, this is flimsy !

My DS who has started in reception this year was a little "naughty" - fighting and the 'usual'. And I got the feeling that the school wanted me to sort this out at home. Well I just don't think that is possible. I can tell him off for being told off etc and support the school but ultimately they have to discipline him for being naughty when he is in their care.

I spoke to the teacher for some discipline ideas after I said that they are free to bollock away (they also did a star chart), and the behaviour disappeared pretty quickly.

IMO there seems to be too much emphasis on the parents sorting out the problem - but hours after the event is just no good and they will continue to push the boundaries unless the school implements discipline immediately. My DS's school were talking about learning about 'Kind Hands' when he had a fight - it didn't even touch the sides ! IMHO just tell him off and implement zero tolerance. From what you have described with your son, there is nothing unusual and nothing that school discipline would not resolve.

elfsmum, hope the brilliant advice from Smileys has gone a long way to reassure you, I just wanted to add that from what you say I think your ds sounds absolutely fine, and it occurred to me that this is really to do with starting school. He has been fine at nursery for a long time, but now has had to start school at 4 (don't get me started on my views on starting them so painfully young!) and I think this is him showing that he is working hard to adjust to the extra independence he is supposed to suddenly develop at just 4 years old! His behaviour is a sign of how hard it is for him, is my amateur diagnosis of the situation!

It's just that I have heard this exact thing from one or two other mums this year since ds has been in reception....

I don't think it could harm to see the psych, and as Smileys said you can request full involvement so that you actually end up being clear what they think and what they recommend, if anything.

And don't let it worry you too much, lots of kids do get seen by the psych and it doesn't mean they will be the ones who actually have real or on-going problems....

thank you all

I am reassured, there was an incident yesterday, when another boy wouldn't tidy up so DS2 told him to and when he didn't he hit him, the boy promptly hit DS2 back and split his lip !!!

When DH picked DS2 up his teacher didn't even ask to speak to him, it was when he noticed DS2 cut mouth he asked what happened and she told him - DS2 and the other boy were chastised by the head of year and the head - and I am absolutely fine with that.

Now either they have taken on board what I said i.e. don't call me in for every incident, especially those where you have already disciplined, OR they didn't bother telling us as it was DS2 that was hurt not someone else !!

DS2 has had another strong talking to, and told to mind his own business if someone else isn't doing what they should it's his teachers job not his to sort them out.

I think you're right about the starting school thing, he's always been supervised at play so to suddenly be in a big school, with limited supervision at playtime must be difficult for him to adjust to.