big problems with 3yo dd, especially refusing to poo & wee - i'm desperate for advice

[sleepseeker]

hi. i have a 3.5 yo daughter and 4 mo baby boy. i am so uptight, angry, worried, tired, probably still grieving, doubting myself, the list could go on forever! not quite sure how to explain the problem, as i don't think i really understand the full extent of it myself, but i'll give it a go.

dd has had problems with potty training for over a year. she has always been reluctant to go to the toilet and has big problems with anyone asking her to go or just reminding her about it. in the last month or so she has got really bad. she's holding in poo as she says it hurts, and the same with wee. obviously it can't stay inside forever so you can imagine the consequences. she seems to be getting better with her wee, but only if you don't ask her to go. from my point of view, this isn't a problem at home, but i don't think it's unreasonable to ask her to go if we are about to go on a journey etc. this is a big problem for her though (we've just missed ballet as she refused to go, even though she hasn't had a wee for 5+ hours). i think she doesn't always want to wee as she thinks she will poo at the same time.

in addition to this, her behaviour has gone really downhill too, and her already picky eating is getting worse. a few of the problems that upset me and really wind me up are trying to hurt her baby brother, singing in my face when i'm trying to talk to her or asking her to listen, blatently ignoring any requests from me, e.g. being quiet when she's near her baby brother so as not to wake him/being more gentle with him, listening to me etc etc.

i'm sure that much of it is linked to control - it's been a hard 12 months for all of us, culminating for her in the birth of ds in august. she was desperate for him to born, and i think now she's torn between loving him and wishing he'd go away. what goes in her mouth, and how she behaves are the things she can control, and she thinks she can control what comes out of her too!

i'm sure my own and my dh's reactions and responses have often made the situation worse, but i'm sure most parents out there can understand that when you're tired or desperate for peace you don't always do the best thing.

personally i really feel like i don't know how to cope with the situation anymore. this is probably particularly bad at the moment as not only am i still exhausted from a newborn, but in a couple of weeks it will be a year since my mum died. my little girl is wonderful, but we're on a real rollercoaster at the moment between having a really good time or me being so angry with her i just want her to go away.

i would really really welcome any advice, or reassurances that i'm not entirely to blame for this situation from anyone who's experienced something like this. i really want to get us all out of this horrible place but i really don't know how. sorry for such a long and rambling thread but i needed to tell someone who's not directly involved! thanks for reading and i hope to hear from someone soon!

No you're not to blame for this at all. 3 year olds can be difficult! And I can't imagine how you must be feeling - the one person you would normally turn to isn't here anymore. I'm so sorry.

But I'm in a similar-ish situation ... I have a just-turned-4 year old and a 4 month old too. We lost a baby at 19 weeks (pg) last year so it was a very stressful pregnancy. DD1 has turned a bit of a corner now but has had a few accidents and we had a HIDEOUS few weeks re: food.

I haven't had any experience of the no poo-wee so will leave that to someone else. BUT it has been known for my DD to have only a wee in the morning and then one at bedtime - I'm climbing the walls but she has been fine.

With regard to the food, what I did was talk to her and explain that she needs to eat for her to grow and have energy to do things, but she's a big girl and knows what she needs to eat. I also explained that we weren't going to nag her, she was only going to have little portions (tiny), and at the beginning I would put the food in a bowl and she would help herself to however much she wanted, and I bit my tongue even if it was a miniscule amount. At least then she was getting the satisfaction of finishing a meal. But I was clear that if she didn't eat anything in a reasonable amount of time, it would go in the bin, then defo no pudding. I also gave her lots of picnic meals - chopped ham, cheese, cucumber, bread, fruit etc as she seems to like that and eat it.

About the other stuff - ignoring you etc, then I would try the naughty step/time out. I've only had to sit her on it a couple of times. Usually the warning is enough.

Don't know if this will help but for us, working out a plan of action and then explaining it to her made all the difference. And made us feel in control again!

Good luck and don't beat yourself up about this. They are hard work. And remember that although you are an experienced parent, every stage your DD goes through is brand new to you. You can't be expected to know it all

Sorry you are having it tough at the moment Sleepseeker. Same age gap between my dd and ds. I was lucky I didn't really have any problems with her before ds but as soon as he was born she had a personality change. She will need a lot of reassurance right now. Try to play with her as soon as ds has a nap. Taking dd swimming on her own really helped. I would try to praise the things that are worrying you. Lots and lots of praise when she is kind to ds, lots of thankyous when she does listen. I would try to ignore the eating issue for now - you need to pick your battles right now. Present her with meals and snacks at regular times and just take them away again - no fuss. She can control what she eats but not how you react - so if you don't react she might give up the fight.
Sorry not had any experience of the toilet thing but hopefully somebody will.
None of us gets it right all the time - a lot of trial and error - so no being hard on yourself. For now I would just try to keep it positive and fun for dd and for yourself too. Don't forget to look after yourself.

thanks both of you. having offloaded everything earlier i've been trying to work out a plan of action. i'll certainly take on board what you've both said about food. it will take a lot of self-control to ignore the messing around and the lack of eating and not worry myself stupid that she's not eating enough, but as you say, if i don't react then she's got nothing to react to. fingers crossed i get some results soon! thanks.

Oh sleepseeker you poor thing.I had similar problems with my 2.5 d.s .I started potty training three months ago & all was going swimmingly-he took to the potty really well for wees especially.Instead of doing a poo every day though,it became every other day and then every few days.One day he was so upset by the sight of it that he announced he wasn't doing anymore poo ever.He held it in for days-my lovely ds turned into a crying,screaming wreck who wailed that his bottom hurt a million times a day.I tried everything,nappies again,prune juice,you name it-I tried it.He refused to leave the house for over a week,in the end after talks with the doctor(who made me feel it was somehow my fault)I tried lactulose-this was day seven.On day ten he eventually went but the problem went on for several weeks.Our doctor made it worse by telling d.s how the digestive system works & how we need to get rid of waste products...d.s then decided that if he didn't eat..he wouldn't have to poo.It was hell
I was reduced to a snapping,crying miserable mother and didn't know where to turn as nobody seemed to have any experience of this.I havn't had your sad loss or a young baby to care for but it still depleted me totally,so I can empathise completely.
D.s seemed to undergo a complete character change from cuddly and happy to aggressive and always crying.I have no family support whatsoever & have looked after d.s 24 hrs a day since he was born without even an hours break ,quite happily..but would have done anything for someone to have him for a few hrs to dilute the situation.
I have put him back in nappies-ordered a personalised Brum behaviour chart from ebay (one star for each poo-5 stars =small prize)
have put the potty away out of sight.I now involve him in the cooking,shopping & let him dish out his own portions of food.Slowly,slowly,we're getting there & am feeling a little less of a crummy mummy!
Sorry this is sooooooooo long,big hugs

How are things sleepseeker?

I just wanted to say that my DS2 went through a stage of holding his poo in and it was an absolute nightmare, I feel so sorry for you it is so stressful. I followed a thread on here for a while which had loads of good advice- it will probably be in the archive, I think it was called something like 'Help DD won't poo'
MY DS2 got very very grumpy when he had been holding it in for a few days, his behaviour really deteriorated, and he would lie awake at night unable to go to sleep because it was hurting him but still refused to go and got really cross if i tried to persuade him. In the end I stopped mentioning it completely despite him jumping around several times a day trying to hold it in. It was so obvious he needed to go. When he did finally do a poo (sometimes after several days)I rewarded him immediately with a sweetie. I tried to increase the fibre and fruit in his diet- he is very fussy about fruit and veg but thank god he likes peas so he had shed loads of those! I also added some oil to his hot meals( i used Udo oil but I think olive oil is meant to do the same thing)If yours doesn't want to eat this will obviously be a problem. Poor you. DS2 continued with it for a few months but I must say it got noticeably better when I stopped trying to persuade him not to hold it. Made me wonder if it was a control thing as well.

Oh yes another thing I used to do when I could see he was holding it in was to put him in a warm bath to realx the muscles and make it less easy for him to hold it.

Hope this helps a bit- try and find that other thread it is really helpful.