DS who is four - misbehaved but struggle to put a finger on why

[Fedup83]

This sounds really weird but from the moment he wakes up until the moment he goes to sleep it's 'something' that he's doing to annoy, provoke or just generally misbehave.

The reason I'm asking for advice is if someone was to ask me 'what' is it precisely he does me and DH would struggle to verbalise it.

The behaviour is just insidious, so small, silly continuous things that have us constantly feeling that we're holding back a flood. We say his name constantly, constantly to keep him on track.

It sounds like a load of silly little things but it's the continuous nature - so asking for something repeatedly until he gets it, unable to stop himself. Running around after sister. Taking things off sister. Jumping about.

It makes us feel like we are constantly having a go at him and that can't be good for his self esteem. It makes me feel negatively toward his behaviour and he doesn't deserve it. He deserves to feel happy and not constantly monitored and told off.

We've been down the whole medical route after concerns were raised at nursery and then school. But absolutely nothing was found to be 'the matter'.

It's like he needs constant one on one to behave.

School, I think, seem to feel that he's settled in now.

Any advice appreciated.

I know exactly what you mean, my four year old DS is the same so you are not alone! I find that routine helps as well as fresh air and trying to ignore some of the things that irritate me as he is just being a four year old (easier said than done though!)

Some of it is boredom so if I find something else to do, or play with him it can help.

Thank you. It's nice to hear this isn't a problem as such and it doesn't seem like I need to worry there's something 'wrong' other than just full of energy.

We do thing the things that make him 'challenging' at times could be the things that also are real strengths in the future.

I have to say he and his DS are playing lovely now in the next room while I'm tapping away so I think I do need to take note that it's not like this 100% of the time - which is how my OP came across.

The love bombing thing I've heard of too and I'm hoping the walking him to school alone there and back a few of the days (while DD is looked after) will help me with this.

Our nearly four year old is pretty similar. I'm working my way through 'The incredible years' book which is making me realise I don't show what he should do instead of the thing I'm telling him to do.
I find mine is fine out of the house/when we're doing something structured so we do a lot of stuff like baking, painting projects.
With mine the real problem is violence to his siblings .

I completely get where you are coming from - I have a 4yo DD and sometimes it feels like she sets out deliberately to be naughty.

I have noticed that it is always 'worse' when I am rushed or stressed. It is better when I have more time to set out my expectations, give DD some one on one time, and if we both get lots of exercise.

Have you tried breaking his day into chunks? So, for example, "DS, I'm going to make lunch now, and I need you to do your stickers until lunch is ready. Then we can play together until we go out to the park."

That way, you are defining expectations so you can reward good behaviour, instead of (what feels like to a 4yo) randomly interrupting to tell him off when he is 'playing'.

Distracting from poor behaviour works for us too ("please don't bounce on the couch, let's go get a snack/toy/cuddle instead").

I also apologise to my DD when I have been grumpy or snapped at her because she needs to understand that we all get it wrong sometimes. She is quite sensitive and a bit of a perfectionist so she was really struggling with apologising and admitting she had been wrong.

I always try to parent by example - so trying not to be cross when DD says "just a minute mummy, I am finishing xyz" - because I say it to her all the time.

From your post it sounds like you are expecting more mature behaviour than your DS can handle right now. Whilst he obviously does need correcting, it is important to pick your battles, praise the good as much as possible, and try to have a more positive relationship in general. As I said, this is something I am working on, so please excuse me if I am projecting.

I remember reading this great book when my daughter was v young saying that its good to rephrase things from "don't.... " "why don't you......instead" and redirect them onto another activity.Also ,choose one or two things that are big no no's and tolerate the low level annoying stuff. Oh, and I also remember reading that calling out their name , don't overdo it as they will learn to zone out from it ,and you need it to work when they're in danger.These things stuck with me and have used them all the time, daughter is nearly 5 now.
I think the walking to school just you two sounds like a great idea OP

A couple of other things that I noticed is that you say that you are constantly saying his name over and over, and telling him to stop doing things.

You also mention that he asks for the same thing, again and again, until he gets it.

Something that might help you all is to count to 6 in your head after asking DS to do something, before you say anything else. Keep your language and any requests/instructions as simple as possible.

Another thing to try is to find a way to express what you want him to do that is positive, rather than negative. So rather than "stop hitting your sister" something like "keep your hands to yourself".

Both these things are designed to make it easier for your child to process the info you're giving. And they should have the added bonus of you feeling less like you have been nagging on all day.

Good luck, I know how wearing a high needs child can be.

My brother was like this, by all accounts. I am older and was considered bright and well-behaved as a kid. My parents couldn't understand why he would wind everyone up, particularly me, and seemed to enjoy getting told off and wearing people down, but looking back it was his way of getting attention.

That was in no way a judgement of your parenting! Just wondering whether he is acting up because it gets him attention.

re the constant asking for stuff - why is it constant?
If it's stuff he can have, then tell him to go and get it.
If it's stuff he can have later, explain that he can have it later, unless he keeps asking in which case he can't.
If it's stuff he can't have say no, explain why and then ignore.
It's not being naughty asking - it is annoying. But if you keep responding, he will keep asking.

My DD is exactly like this. It is normal, but knowing that doesn't make it any easier! We've figured out that because her younger brother gets more attention because he's more dependent and it's a way of attention seeking, so we make time where we just sit, play, watch TV, cuddle and there are no expectations from her, she can just have our time and within reason, we do what she wants. Also agree with the "four year olds are like dogs" analogy! If she doesn't get to run, she will literally send me up the wall. We got a junior trampoline, and she can have free run of the garden. She also started ballet and swimming. 😄

Walking to school is nice and also useful but it's neither love bombing nor unfocused exercise.

LBing must be totally child led unless it is something dangerous or permanently damaging. It's about focused time together. So we have DS Time. We talk about DS time, what we might do during DS time and how long and when DS time will be. DS might decide he wants to make and decorate cakes, or go to the park, make a den, watch a film... but whatever it is, it is his choice and you do it together. You never use it as a punishment and never take it away from the child.

The other type of exercise must be the exact opposite: completely free form so they can let go and not have to pay attention, nor do what they're told. There must be boundaries of course, usually physical, so maybe "you can play anywhere you like but don't go out of the gate" or "you can go as far as the big tree but no further".

I don't pretend to know why this stuff is so important in partnership with some sort of routine but it is and it does make a difference.

Oh and always define the time for DS Time. So an hour or max two. Any more and you go mad/it becomes overwhelming.

Basicay what I've written down is my ds's operating manual. I should print it out to remind me that this is just the way he is

He gets your continual attention by misbehaving. He craves your attention, without it the world is a lonely and scary place, being told off is better than not having your attention. He isn't mature enough to work out positive ways of getting your attention, so he sticks with what works and misbehaves.

Try ignoring as much if the winding up as possible. Use distraction techniques and move quickly on from trying situations. Try and learn to spot his triggers (tiredness, hunger, end of school day etc.) and try and head him off before the behaviour happens.
If you want him to behave in a certain way, be really clear about what you want him to do. Don't just tell him he needs to be good in the shop (how does he know what being good in a shop looks like?), tell him you need him to walk beside you so you can finish as fast as possible (or hold your hand or talk quietly or whatever).
And praise the tiniest things he does well. You said upthread he was playing nicely with his DSis, did you tell him? Make sure your praise is specific and not OTT, so he knows exactly what he did right and why you appreciated it. You can use pats, ,strokes and cuddles as well as words.
Find time for him alone and give him 100% of your undivided attention, play with him.

Gradually he will learn that positive attention is much nicer than being told off and nagged, and he will know what to do to win it.

Thank you. I do know this deep dork but it's good to be reminded of good habits and not fall into bad ones with him.

Deep down!! Ha ha!

I know you know . I think that parenting is such a consuming activity that we don't always have the time or energy to stand back, reflect and plan. We are too busy firefighting and lurching from one thing to the next.
It's why I'm a big fan of parenting courses, being able to take an hour or two every week for a handful of weeks to think about trying new ideas and finding the impetus to persist with the old ideas that have fallen by the way side. without any distractions
and

Thank you. I've done a bit better today I think but the end of the day is harder!

That's a tough time for everyone, when both you and he are getting tired and patience is wearing thin. Sometimes an earlier bed time helps, or making sure you have a snack yourself if you eat later than your DS.
Good luck, you will get this sorted.

Marking place. OP my DD is similar and I have fallen into a similar vicious cycle of constant nagging (for want of a better word). I will revisit this thread as it's a summary of stuff I know but often forget to do!

SpotOn you said upthread your DS needed a lot of sleep but found it hard to switch off. That describes DD exactly, result is she is tired a lot. Did you find a solution or did he grow out of it? or is he still like that...

My nephew is a bit like this, he wakes at 3 in the morning and reads..... he's now 11.

Haven't read most of replies so sorry if repeating, but just wanted to share my experience of 'constantly misbehaving' 3/4 yr old.

My oldest boy is nearly 14 now, but back when he was 3 or 4 it felt like he was constantly getting told off for something, it just seemed to be a never ending cycle.

What worked for us was to completely back off from telling him off, and go what felt like massively OTT with praising anything and everything good - saved the telling off for things that were really bad (or dangerous).
I think it's called love-bombing or some such thing now - it seemed a ridiculous way to go about it all, basically ignoring things that were really not acceptable behaviour, but it worked really really well.

His behaviour improved massively - I think it was just a cycle we'd all got into, him as well as us.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do - but it really isn't unusual for this to happen.

Dd likes jumping on furniture. We bought a small trampoline. It gets daily use

Thank you!!! We've had another 95% good day. He's so lovely - I just think so strong willed.

I'm finding actually explaining WHY he mustn't do things is helping. I know that sounds obvious.

Looking forward to the 123 book arriving!

95% is brilliant! Well done to both of you.

Thank you. I need to up my game, refresh my skills and really focus on making things positive for him.