Yet another 'fours' thread :(

[LJsmum]

My ds is turning 4 in about 6 weeks' time. Lately I just cannot believe his behaviour... he seems to delight in doing the wrong thing, and when we tell him off for doing something he just mimicks us or talks back. I am managing (just) to keep him under control by sending him to his room or putting all his toys away (which he hates), and dh gives him the occasional smack on the bottom when ds manages to push him too far. So I would say he's getting disciplined, but he just pushes the boundaries all the time. I have also tried the 'positive reinforcement' angle, by telling him I love him and how clever he is, & I praise him when he does something good.

But... today he was so naughty for my parents. They have always been too soft on him and now it's really starting to show In the space of about 4 hours, he tore a page out of one of my mother's books, pulled leaves off one of her new pot plants (after she'd said NO several times), tipped one of her plants out of its container and dumped the dirt all over the place, then laughed at her when she tried to reprimand him. He even yelled at her when she told him off. She is wondering whether my ds even understands that he is doing anything wrong - she suspects that he thinks it's all some kind of a game/joke.

I feel very down & cranky with him at the moment. When my parents brought him home, I spoke to him after they left and asked him if he understood that he was naughty this morning, and he said 'yes' and that he said he was 'sorry to Nanny', but he honestly doesn't seem to get the message and just keeps doing the same kinds of things all the time. He is now banned from all his toys as we speak

Is it his age? Sex? Personality? All three?? I've got to say, this is worse than the two's or the three's... the only thing I can say on the positive side, is that he's not aggressive and has never lashed out, & his nature is basically happy and loving. I'm just beginning to despair a bit at the moment...

I know exactly where you coming from ladies.I have a ds 4 yr and 3 months and I have warned mns on a terrible 2's and 3's thread to brace themselves for the f!kr fours!!! They are the worse out of the lot. I really don't know what happens to them, my ds has become increasingly mouthy always having the last word (or shout) in his case. He is really abrupt and rude to me at times and I am fairly calm to a certain extent, but to tell you the truth I have lost it with him. I really began to question his hearing because he would ignore everything I would ask him, but would suddenly develop razor sharp hearing if he was offered a sweet or chocolate. I know they have a surge of testosterone around this age but bloody hell it can be really hard going. He can be an angel mainly when he is asleep but there are times when I have to look at dh and literally say "God give me strength". I have to walk away alot because I fear that I may strangle him. I love him with all my heart but they can be terrors at this age. Apparently they calm down when they are about 6. GOD HELP US!!!!!!!

My ds is being horrid at the moment. He will be 5 in July, and he is acting like a teenager! All I hear is "I WON'T" "YOU CAN"T MAKE ME" "I DON"T LIKE YOU ANYMORE" "I WISH I WOULD DIE" "IT'S NOT FAIR" and so on. He is usually a lovely boy. Heres hoping it will have stopped by the time he starts school in August...

Ooohhh can I join in. DS (4 this week) just started school, never had any major probs at nursery or playing with other kids. Today school haul me in to tell me he is repeatedly hitting and pulling children. I am staggered. never had this before.

What suggestions? I have remained calm, explained that this is a bad thing and that if he can have a good morning tomorrow that we will go swimming and get a McDonalds. Is this the right approach? In reality I feel like crying my eyes out!

I thought I would resurrect this thread so I can get another whinge off my chest. Firstly I sympathise with you debrab, I can understand how upsetting it must be. How are things going?

Anyway ds has been quite good lately, apart from bossing some other children around at preschool, he's generally been a lot calmer and more responsive when we tell him to do something. But then there was an incident in the toy shop yesterday they have a train set on display in the shop that kids can come and play with, but there aren't many trains so the children have to share. Firstly ds snatched a car off another little boy, so I made him give it back. A few minutes later, he was playing with a train but decided to put it down while he went to look at something else. When he came back, another little boy was playing with it. Well - he got upset and threw himself on the floor and screamed because the other child had it. Of course there had to be another mother standing there!! I felt really embarrassed. I took him by the hand and walked him back to the car, and drove him home. I explained that the toys belong to the toy shop, NOT HIM, and that if he puts a toy down and walks away, then another child has the right to come and play with it. When we got home I made him go in his room for a while, & he promptly fell asleep on his bed.

As I said, he's nearly four, but is it normal for 4 year olds to still react like this??? Did I handle it the right way? When he was lying on the floor in the shop, I just felt that it was more like two-year old behaviour than 4. Other days he plays really well with other kids, but then this more 'aggressive' side comes out and he can't seem to grasp the idea that something is not HIS. Sigh...

My 4yo sometimes still acts like that. And other days he's a completely different child, good about sharing, minds, cooperates (which feels like a miracle). Was he tired/hungry/wound up, LJsmum?

i think all 4 year olds have days like these. please don't worry ljsmum. i would say from going through this with ds1 that aswell as tiredness/hunger there are 2 things that trigger the meltdowns: 1. if my ds1 isn't prepared and 2.if he feels that something isn't fair. the only thing i would have tried in with the trains is (especially now he's being more responsive) next time anticapate worst scenario - give a short explanation 'ok someone elses turn now'. walk out if you feel you need to but come back into shop later when he has calmed down? i found using the phrase 'taking turns' rather than sharing is a more easier concept for them to grasp. though as he is trying to make sense of the world he probably doesn't see many adults taking turns with their stuff. it's a double edged sword with toy shops and train sets - there is always a scuffle or two. and it usually means your stuck supervising (for some reason the train sets are always near the front door)so you can't go around the shop to find what you were originally went in for!

also forgot to add that i'm finding i can avoid conflict with my ds1 when i focus on what he CAN do rather than what he can't. maybe whisper - 'hey look at this train over here its even bigger!' during tantrum - make him stop to listen- i think all children are inherently good -they want to be independent and helpful but the toyshops bring out the worst aswell as the best in children.

Zebra, yes he must've been tired considering he went straight to sleep on his bed when we got home. I hadn't realised how tired he was - this probably had a lot to do with it and now I feel a bit bad for maybe being too hard on him.

It's difficult sometimes... just when you think you've got a certain behaviour 'beaten' (such as the starfish position on the floor when they don't get their own way ), then all of a sudden they start doing it again. I just thought he was past reacting like this, but then I'm probably expecting too much (again). I normally try to talk to him ahead of time about taking turns, etc, and it usually does work.

I think you're right shrub, most kids probably DO want to be good but they just have trouble controlling their emotions. Ds usually realises almost straight away that he's done the wrong thing, but it doesn't seem to stop him doing it again at a later stage. I suppose it will come with time as he learns to cope with his feelings a bit more.

my ds1's nursery teacher helped me last year when she said that I had to teach my ds1 to manage his emotions - at this age you are their whole world and they are trying to make sense of it (i'm still working on that one myself!)it helped me think differently about tantrums - that he would keep repeating the behaviour until he was shown another way. this was tricky for me as it was rather like he was holding up a mirror to my own behaviour - when i'm tired (all the time!)i am impatient, get very highly strung and shout at dh. i realised i had to 'model' my behaviour to help ds with his. so we are all trying to be very polite and calm in our house ie.when ds2 tips his breakfast all over himself and the floor i say 'oh well, never mind' when previously you can probably guess what i said... for the most part it has changed how he reacts when things overwhelm him.

Hello ...
My sympathies to anyone with a 4 year old. Absolutely everyone I have ever spoken to who has had a 4 year old boy has found it a tough age. I started a thread a few months back called 'Do all 4 year old boys turn into dorks?' and had a lot of support from MNers who reassured me that DS had not been abducted by aliens and replaced by a monster that looked like him and that his behaviour was normal for his age.
I believe it starts from 3 and a half and gets better near 5 ... and tbh I did feel that DS changed at 3 1/2. His behaviour became truly appalling when his baby sister was born in February, and I can honestly say that now at 4 and a half he seems to be getting better.
I do have to be careful and anticipate his reaction to things, and talk to him before we go somewhere about how I expect him to behave. I have learned with DS that if he knows what is expected of him then he will be ok .... it is when he is not sure of a situation that he has 'meltdown'. For example, when we go to someone's house we talk about sharing toys and that if the other child won't share that is ok, he must not get cross and must find something else to play with ... this works 9 out of 10 times now - but only if we have the talk before hand.
With my DS he feels insecure if the boundaries are wishy washy and then he is awful ...