aggressive 3 year old, hits her mum who is my best friend

[eastendgirl]

Lately whenever I see a very dear friend we end up having quite a stressfull time, so much so that I try to see her less and less.... Her ds has quite violent tantrums, shouts at her to be quiet, hits her, pulls her. My friend tells him off, threatens him with time out but never carries out the threat and the kid ends receiving quite a lot of attention. My friend is not stupid and often criticises bad parenting but does not seem to see it in herself. I find it very shocking to see her being hit by a little boy and not be able to do anything. My ds is also beginning to ask questions about why my friend "likes being hit".... should I say something to my friend (but cannot tell her how to bring up her kid can I? sometimes she even smiles when her ds hits her....), or should I see her less and less.) What would other people do? I have to add that my friend was brought up in quite a macho society and often says that her ds is genetically macho and aggressive, basically saying that she cannot change the behaviour.

oh dear i havent had an aggressive 3yearold boy so wouldnt like to say "thats terrible what an awful child" incase its quite normal.

personally, i think i would put him in a room on his own when he does it and let him scream it out andhit something else other than his poor mum. buts thats me and my opinion.dont know how you can say anything to her without upsetting though. shes probably using the excuse of genetically macho cause shes embarassed

I just find it very difficult to seeing her being hit....I will have to see her less and less I think

does she say if hes like it when theyre on their own or is it just when she has visitors? could be attention seeking like you mentioned in your post

She told me he is like that all the time, and tbh he has been quite demanding and angry since he was 1. Sometimes they put him in his room/ not always though. I think this little boy is aggressive because he is unhappy about quite a few things in his life, still panicks about separating from her, still very distressed at nursery, still very angry when the dad goes to work, etc, so not sure time out, inconsistent time out on top of that, will take away the disruptive behaviour. Maybe they have to solve the separation issue first, move him to a childminder for some 1 to 1, establish more boundaries. I just find it very sad, I wanted to know from Mumsnet how common my situation is, and what happens to a child like this who does nto get help.

obviously you think an awful lot of your friend.i hope someone comes on that has experienced the little boys behaviour

thank you for your kindness.

thats ok,just bump it up for you one more time

MY best friend and I both tell each others children off if necessary. I have a DD(3) and she has two DS's (4&6). I find her boys behaviour very stressfull sometimes - they intimidate my DD and talk rudely to thier mum and on occasion do hurt her physically. I have threatened to bring them home with me and 'sort them out' and mention to my friend about letting them get away with stuff, but she normally just says they have worn her down. She is a terrific mum however and when on form takes no prisoners, but sometimes she just does get 'worn-down', her DH works very long hours and spoils the DS's when he's witht hem to make up for his absence I guess, which can't help.

What support does your friend get from her DH/P

Perhaps your friend feel embarrassed by her DC's behaviour and save s his chastisement till they are alone??

Her dp is fairly supportive,more than most men, apparently he cooks dinner every night!!!!!!! I do think she is embarrassed by her ds' behaviour. I tell her son off if he is nasty with my ds, and that seems to have sunk in for the time being. but I stay mostly quite when he hits her because I wait for her to take him upstairs. I do think she is worn out though.

i think you're being a little harsh actually. i have two children. my eldest is 9 now and he's always been a very placid child, he maybe sulks sometimes but he does not tantrum, never really has and was a delight as a toddler. my dd however, tantrums for virtually nothing and quite frequently hits me...and believe me, when she's in full tantrum mode i havent a clue what to do with her. she's nearly three but has bruised me on occasion when ive had no option but to pick her up, kicking and screaming and carry her out from a supermarket. i admit, i dont know what to do with her, ive never had this before. she wears me out mentally and some days i feel like screaming my head off because i dont know why she's like this. why would you avoid a friend because of this? sounds like she's got a hard enough time as it is. she needs your support or at least your continued friendship. i have a friend whose daughter was exactly the same and we have a good old complain about it together. i have to say...sometimes im so mentally tired that i just walk away from dd because i cant take any more, its not that i dont care...or dont want things to change...its just tiring.

If her dh is good to her and treats her right then I reckon her ds will turn out okay - because the modelling is there for him to see how people should be treated.

Other than that - well it's only a problem if she minds - if she is happy then it's okay.

I saw them today, she certainly does mind, was quite upset today because he punched her in an eye because he wanted the telly on, she told him off and went off to prepare him his dinner and put the telly on for him and my ds. I asked her if she minds his behaviour, and she said 'i mind but he has a strong personality, that's the way he is....'. I don't like to see such passivity. I have to say my ds does have huge tantrums and I walk away and ignore him till he stops, quick cuddle and we move on. He is certainly no angel. Nightowl I certainly did not want to offend you - to your question why I would want to avoid a friend who is going through this is because I find it very stressfull, upsetting and quite depressing really.

I think this is a scary situation and if I was her friend I would talk to her about it. She may be able to cope with a 3 year old hitting her but what will it be like when he is older? Now is the time to stop behaviour like this imo.

If it is a simple case of inconsistency then I think that any violence needs to be an absolute no-no and he should be scooped up and put in his room at the first sign of it, every time.

If, as you suppose, he has underlying issues, then perhaps she needs to get help from a child psychologist.

I personally would feel more comfortable upsetting a friend by trying to help her than by avoiding her because I felt sorry for her.

Though she's being cool about it, it isn't nice for her (I have been there). Understand you might not want to expose your ds to it, but if you can manage not to stop seeing her she probably really needs someone around who is nice to her at the moment. It may pass, she and her ds hopefully will work it out together. Maybe you could see her for an evening drink or something; you both might feel able to talk about it better away from dcs?

eastend girl, dont worry, you didnt offend me at all . i have no problem with my friends giving me suggestions when im at my wits end with dd, i would rather that than they avoided me thats all. wasnt meant to come across as arsy...was very tired last night and im rubbish at explaining at the best of times!

Well had a chat with my friend this am, told her I was worried she looked very worn out which she did, she said tearfully that "ds" does worn her out, but that his strong personality will serve him well when he is an adult. and that he will always fight his corner. I could not add anything after that, parenting methods are so personal...Basically she puts a positive spin on what I see as troublesome behaviour, she has decided not to mind it and to accept it and encourage it. Each to their own! But we will probably see each other less. This am her ds was hitting my other friends ds in the supermarket and my friend just smiled and said "oh boys like to play rough don't they". Not one word of reprimand.

I would feel like you, would find it extremely difficult to say nothing....Is there a chance that her DP/DH encourages this supposedly "macho" behaviour and is her DS the same with him????? I would say that deep down she knows it's not right but has justified it to herself so many times she now believes it. I also understand that it's tempting to distance both yourself and your DS from the situation and if this is the choice you make I would explain to your friend that you can't keep exposing your DS to this behaviour as it is getting difficult to explain to him that it's not acceptable behaviour for him and that though it's hard for you as you love her lot's, as you said, parenting is personal and it's a choice you have to make. Maybe you could see her socially without LO's?????

eastendgirl, boy, do I know about string personalities and was nodding my head about your friend's comment about it serving her ds well in adulthood ... but her ds needs to be made aware at every turn that aggression (whether towards her or other children) is a big no-no and will not be tolerated - in this culture anyway.

My dd is headstrong and I definitely believe that going head-to-head with her is the wrong strategy. As a result, I am forced to always consider my/her requests and yes, she probably gets away with a lot more than other children because I have to pick my battles.

But aggression is one battle I WILL pick and will fight over and over again (lol!). Thankfully dd knows that she crosses the line on that one.

In letting her ds know that he is wrong to hit her, your friend does not have to clampdown really hard on him. I don't do time out or punishments. I just hold dd's hand and tell her not to hit and to be gentle, even kiss her hands sometimes. If she persists, like you, I put her down and walk away. But she always get the message that it is wrong, no matter how many times she does it.

It does seem like your friend is worn down (I understand how wearying dealing with a strong personality is) and probably condones it because of the macho culture. How asking her whether it would be different if her ds were a girl? The answer might be telling.

Of course, it is up to her to set the boundaries for her ds. I frankly don't know if her ds will "grow out of it" if he is not given consistent guidance. He (and your friend) may end up learning the hard way, if other people (like you) start distancing themselves and their children.

But definitely, her ds' home environment needs to be sorted out as a priority. It is not reasonable to expect children to behave when they are subject to stressful situations.

Thank you for all your thoughts - always good to hear different points of view.