3 yr old Menace - driving me mad (long sorry...)

[dejags]

Help me!!!

My three year old is driving me nuts (and that's putting it mildly ) I have to say that his behaviour is starting to worry me - here is a synopsis of a typical day in our house:

He wakes up at 7/7.30 and starts demanding the minute he gets out of bed i.e if offered cereal for breakfast he will have a wobbler because he can't have peanut butter toast (he is almost addicted to p/butter so we have disallowed it at breakfast time).
We then have to beg for at least 15 minutes to get him to eat his breakfast - normally once he starts it?s a fairly painless process
Next nightmare is getting dressed - he runs away, cries, says his clothes hurt him and generally behaves atrociously.

By this stage I am exhausted?

This pattern of behaviour continues throughout the day. I have to ask a million times and 9 out of 10 have to resort to threats (toys withheld, timeout in bedroom or in really extreme circumstances I threaten a smacked bottom) before he will do anything. He is rude, argumentative and uncooperative in the extreme. We find his behaviour is worse on weekends when both DH and I are with him - he is better when it's just one on one. All of this I could live with until recently - he has not had a dummy for the past two weeks, and although he never mentions them he whines constantly about everything else and it is driving me and DH slowly mad. This weekend has been a complete nightmare - nothing keeps him happy.

Oddly he isn't behaving this badly at the childminders - she says he has had a couple of episodes but on the whole is his normal sunny self.

Could this sudden onset of awful behaviour be due to his dummy being taken away or might the fact that I am 5 months pregnant have something to do with it?

Please tell me my son isn't going to grow up a menace to society - and any advice on how to keep calm would be HUGELY appreciated.

Sounds completely normal 3 year old behaviour to me. Don't worry! I have 2 DDs (now 6 and 12) and had this kind of thing at their toddler/preschool stage. I think its called "developing their individuality"!! Poor you, but it will pass.

dejags, my dd is just gone 3 and a few months ago we were having such a terrible time with tantrums etc that I went to see a consultant about it ... she reassured me that this is completely normal toddler behaviour in their struggle to rule the roost. Like your ds, my dd was also well behaved when she was elsewhere with other people and apparently this is the very important - the fact that they reserve the awful behaviour for Mum and Dad is 'fine' ... I know it doesn't feel like it to you at the moment though.
Bear with it, continue to be firm and this will pass in time. Best wishes CM

Dejags - if yours is a would be menace to society - so is mine & a couple of my friends as well.

Your day sounds very much like mine & we haven't even taken the dummy totally off him yet....

Almost from the moment he wakes he has a list of demands as long as your arm, never asked for in a polite way. Wheres this? I want, I need. Major, major battles over clothes, food

We also had a bad w/end where my normally mild mannered hubbie was coming down even harder than me. I too am at a bit of a loss & have really wondered if there is something wrong with him. I'm hoping it is a phase. I'm beginning to read a book recommended to me by MN - the Social Toddler & some of this is making sense, but I've read very little yet.

I am trying to choose my battles carefully. What do I care really if he has the same pair of spiderman underpants on for 4 days??? Not a jot if it avoids an scene, probably wrong, but I'm nearly 8 mnths pg as well. I can't chase him round the house.

My friend came round Sunday - also with badly behaved 3 yr old and we had wine & chocs to cheer us up. I'm with you all the way honey. Lets see if anyone else has any advice.

PS - my son also banned from local playgroup/playsession thing. Hummmmmmmm nice at 3 eh??

Thanks for your replies ladies - very reassuring.

Lazyeye - are ours related in some other universe perhaps? I took mine to a friends on Sunday (she has 3 gorgeous girls) - all of her girls were lovely for the most part but DS was whiney and demanding. I find myself despairing that DS can be so "otherwise". We had friends over last night for a glass of wine and he just didn't give us one minute's peace - he bounced around like a maniac, constantly interrupting, being rude to me and being generally disruptive. He does have lovely moments though when he kisses my belly and tells me that he loves me.. (these keep me sane). Odd what you say about your hubby - my husband is also normally very mild mannered but he has been grumpy and very intolerant of DS's behaviour this weekend - when it bugs him I start to worry iykwim...

Time to dig out "toddler taming" and I'll have a look for the book you suggested online.

Dejags, I'm afraid I can't offer much advice but I can sympathise completely. Ds1 is 3 and his behaviour is almost identical, ie angel at nursery and monster at home. He's got into guns via a boy at nursery (nursery have dealt with this) and now everything is "I'll shoot you" or "Peeeoww" (meant to be shooting noise) as well as the usual bad temper.
If it wasn't for the occasional hug and "I love you mummy" I swear I'd put him up on e-bay.
Only advice would be to be patient as everyone keeps telling me its just a phase and that he'll grow out of it. I don't want to wish his life away but ...

Ahhh, a typical 3 year old! Sounds like we should all get together and compare notes. My ds is just 4 and I've gone through (and occasionally am still going through) this.

Dejags, if it makes for an easier life, let him have his peanut butter toast in the morning, why not. Last thing you need is a battle as soon as you get up.
Agree with Lazyeye about choosing battles carefully - maybe try turning the getting dressed problem into a game? When he runs away - chase him, try and make it fun, give him a big tickle or something at the end, takes the tension away!
I know what you mean about having to ask him to do something for the zillionth time - but I just don't think they register your request straight away, which means we get frustrated, but they are probably just so engrossed in what they are doing, it doesn't sink in til the 5/6 time of asking.
Have you tried a star chart? This seemed to work with my ds. Try and focus on maybe 2 or 3 'problems' rather than everything and see what happens.
Most of all, don't worry!

dejags, you have my sympathy and empathy! My DS (3 and a half) has always been quite a handful and I find following the advice about behaviour modification etc difficult too.
One thing that has made a big difference is his going to playschool five mornings a week and giving me a little break plus his learning from a large peer group what is and isn't acceptable.
Also at home I try on some days to make everything as easy as possible and just get in bed with him and play making caves or reading or just chatting, letting him choose what we play and devoting my time just to him for as long as I can, ideally an hour or two. A session like this seems to make him a little more calm and co operative than the tantrumming thing he can do.
A friend of mine (who I respect, with grown up kids) told me that I need to decide what the rules are, tell him and keep to whatever those are. Sometimes this works for me for eg with bed time, I just don't negotiate any more, if he comes down we shut the stairgate and let him shout, he eventually gives up. Good luck and hope we have a good day tomorrow!

Hi there,

I'm beginning to think that "terrible twos" is a total misnomer. Three year olds seem double the work if you ask me. Dejags - my three year old (four in a couple of weeks) can be whiney, stroppy, demanding, rude etc (see my post last night for an example - she hit me and I was horribly angry then really upset) but she can also be an angel and real pleasure. She's defintely worst when both me and dh are around, better with just one of us and best of all for anyone else (this seems a pretty typical pattern). I 'm taking a lot of comfort from knowing that this is normal from the postings here. I'd also say that there's nearly always a reason in dd's case, even if it's not immediately obvious - it's usually when she's tired, or when one or other of us has been away, or changes to routine - so maybe it is the dummy. Hang in there, I'm sure it will pass

Phew-it's not just me then!!
Having just had the mother of all battles with my dd(3 next month) I have deposited her at nursery, had 2 cups of coffee, umpteen cigarettes and was about to start a new thread when I saw this one.
I thought we'd got through the terrible twos unscathed!! Silly me! Didn't realise there was more to come!
What makes it so hard is that she's always been such an angel and now I feel like I don't like her at all sometimes. How awful to be saying that.But we too have constant unreasonable demands (she drops things on the floor deliberately then tells me to pick them up and has a tantrum when I won't,asks for weetabix then screams and says she wanted rice crispies)plus slapping, spitting,kicking etc. Not to mention getting dressed, undressed, doing teeth..... I always seem to be threatening things and there is a constant stand off between us! I try really hard to praise the good and ignore the bad but it seems so calculated on her part sometimes that I cannot keep calm. I am a teacher too and when I think of some of the stroppy year 11's I've dealt with over the years I can't believe my own child can make me so enraged!
I have also recently separated from my H and although DD sees him quite a lot, and things are amicable between us, I can't help but wonder if that has got anything to do with the deterioration in her behaviour.
Oh dear, sorry-a bit long!

Good, its not just me either then. I also think the terrible twos were dandy compared to the stage we are at now - 3 and a bit.

Did anyone see Little Angles BBC3 last night? Some of that made sense to me.........

MY ds is now 4 just. He is a terrible whinger, He constantly says NO to me, and that drives me up the wall, i can't say we have temper tantrums anymore,( we didn't get many). I just ignore him and carry on what i wanted to do. so no real advice but you're not alone and i am sure he'll grow out of it in time, just hard for you at the time being. hugs.

Dear all
I have just found this web site and a so glad as was feeling really this morning. Now that I know we are all in the same boat I feel much better. I have 3 of the little darlings and they have all been exactly the same. The 3 year old thing is horrid. Second only to the bit where you are crying everyday from no sleep as the little minx wants to be bredastfed morning noon and night. Remember that? The good news is that at 4 they get better!! Hang in there.

I really don't need to read this thread - my DS1 will be 3 in July and I have enough trouble coping with his whinging now - PLEASE don't tell me it is going to get worse ?

Oh no...

On the one hand I am pleased to hear that this behaviour is normal - on the other hand I can't bear the thought that I have another year of it. DS will only be 3 in 2 weeks time... arrrghhhh...

I can't help thinking that once we add a hungry, colicky newborn to the mix in September that we'll be having a fun time ahead... ...

As my brain separated from my body this morning while trying to get ds ready for nursery, I decided to count the number of times he said "no" (his current ploy is to say "no" over and over again in a raised, melodramatic, shocked-that-such-a-thing-could-happen-to-him voice). One hundred and forty three "no"s later we got to nursery. In the space of about 30 minutes, maybe 40. I am not kidding. You've got to admire his stamina, really. Since turning three he has certainly developed a lot more fiendish, whiney behaviour and what we are trying is simply not responding when he whines - I just say "I'm not listening to you until you speak to me properly". It takes a while, and a lot more melodrama, but it usually works in the end. Apart from that I am just hanging on in there until he leaves home.

psychoalky - like the nickname. You should pop into the bar one night.

Roll on dd being 4 glad we are not alone - hang in there all

Well, I took a new approach today, despite being smacked in the face within 10 seconds of waking up! I decided to be exceptionally calm and unfazed by dd's behaviour-just walked off downstairs when she started creating and said come down when you're ready to get dressed, and within 2 mins she came down clutching her clothes and put them on with no fuss!! Hurray!!! Then went overboard with praise. Fingers crossed for tomorrow!
At least we all no we're not alone!

I too could have written a similar post and am also glad its not just me. I sometimes feel like I'm the only parent at nursery to raise my voice - its almost as if no one else has ever had an unruly child!

Also, dh, who usually dotes on ds, has been really impatient with ds's behaviour. This is out of character for him and makes my weekends twice as hard (grumpy son and grumpy husband ).

We have found that star charts have helped a little and also just letting ds go at his own pace when we are out and about. Other than that I have no advice really, I'm also just hoping he will turn into an angel at 4 .

I feel better! I feel better! I feel better!

DD1 is becoming a whiny MONSTER at home - slumping in front of the telly, refusing to eat, stropping about getting dressed.

It's not just me! It's not just her!

Thank you thank you thank you.

I cannot comment on girls but have ds aged 4 and I can guarantee that it does not get any better at 4. I am not alone here when I say the f*!k"r fours are worse apparently they do not calm down till they reach 5 or 6. I speak to the other mothers at pre-school and they are all like it.
So sorry to disapoint anyone with a tiring 3 year old but brace yourselves for the fours!!!!!!
I have a 9 week old baby boy who looks so innocent, but when I look at his big brother I know I have all this to come again!

It's good to know that it's not just me that has a 3 year old that can be both a gorgeous creature and a horrible monster in the space of 5 minutes. Anyone got any suggestions on dealing with DD1 continually pushing/hitting/bossing/ grabbing off DS1 (aged 2) - it's driving me mad!

Another one here with a threenager! I just accidentally found a way around a lot of problems: the other day I made a puppet out of a sock and a few buttons and fabric remnants, and lo and behold! my dd does everything the puppet says! The funny thing is that she's totally aware that I make the puppet talk and move, but it works anyway...

Another trick that works some of the time is to make things "speak", for instance the shoes will say "put me on your feet". Sometimes I feel a bit silly making up silly voices for clothes, flannels,toothbrushes etc, but anything to avoid a tantrum really...

fully aware that I have a while to go before dd hits 3, but I find that giving her a choice of two things to do or eat or wear can help- you can have milk or apple juice- which do you want?, pink shirt or blue jumper? read a book or do playdough?- I think by letting her choose she thinks she is in control....

She still kicks my in the face when I change her nappy, then bursts into floods of tears when I look stern and say "no kicking", though