help - just been hit by my 4 year old (long - sorry)

[hatter]

DD1 will be four in two weeks time. On the whole she's very good but at times she can be a right old drama queen and would be a contender for the tantrum olympics (she really is the girl with a little curl). Tonight was the worst tantrum I have ever seen. It was precipitated by some trivial thing she perceived as unjust (her sister being allowed to sit on a stool that she suddenly decided she wanted to sit on...) "I wanted to sit on the stool" "I can't see the book" (not true). Following an earlier thread here I decided to totally ignore her and I carried on reading the book in an ordinary, calm voice to DD2. (DD1 had already had her chosen book). When I got to the end DD1 demanded (screaming and crying and stamping her foot) that I read it again. I said no and then ignored the subsequent treaties. I tucked dd2 in bed, then asked dd1 if she wanted me to tuck her in but all I got was continued tears, screaming "READ IT" etc so I said good night and went downstairs. She followed me, still screaming and demanding to have the book again. I really tried to keep my calm and just kept repeating that she should go back to bed. I think it was when she thought going back to bed was negotiable "Only if you read it" that I snapped and started shouting. She ran half way up the stairs, then stopped and demanded again and again to have the book read. I followed her - and she hit me. She wacked me in the face with the palm of her hand and it did actually hurt (more luck, than judgement I know - she caught my eye). It was so awful - not being hit but my reaction - I was SOOOOOO angry. I wanted to hit her back which is the worst thing to ever think about your own child. I didn't hit and I never ever would (I'm passionately against any form of hitting) but - for an instant - I did want to. That upsets me so much I'm crying just thinking about it. I don't really know what I was thinking but I put her in the toilet (which was the nearest door) and shut it (for probably 30 seconds). When she came out she just continued - in exactly the same manner, stamping, shouting, demanding. She did eventually manage a calm "Please can you read it" which - had the strop not lasted so long, and had she not hit me, I would normally indulge. But I just told her that I was not going to read it because she had hit me; because she should have asked nicely in the first place and because it was too late. She got into bed (still asking! - she's determined if nothing else) and asking again and again why not. She even deliberately banged her head against the headboard. I explained a couple more times, stroked her head told her I loved her and went downstairs. Thankfully she fell asleep.

What do we do? What are we doing wrong? I feel like crap for loosing it with her. She did have a tiring weekend which can precipitate big strops sometimes, but this was the strop of all strops

Hatter, you're not doing anything wrong, I've been there and it's horrible, I do know how you feel and I've cried and cried after my ds hit me in the past. You did absolutely the right thing imo in NOT giving in to the tantrum. Her own anger probably scared her a bit tbh, as did yours when it surfaced. I think you did really well to keep your temper for as long as you did and I know that feeling of wanting to hit them back, I've felt it too and managed not to. Don't be upset, you're human and it's normal to feel like it. Well, if it isn't I'm abnormal too. I also think they should know you have a snapping point (in that you don't keep your temper necessarily, not that you hit them) too and that you're human. Oh I so sympathise, my ds was 'orrible at 4 and we had some violence too, which has pretty much stopped now (6.5 but stopped quite a while ago).

Oh hatter, what a horrible evening for you. I admire you for not hitting her back. Hopefully she realised that she hurt you and that might make an impression on her. I think it's really good that the situation ended with you assuring dd of your love. I'm sure you are not doing anything wrong. Lots of children go through this, especially when they're tired. Hope you get to chill out tonight and then maybe in the morning you can explain to dd why she didn't get her story.

I know that feeling of 'where did I go wrong, it's all my fault, I've handled him all wrong, I'm a crap mother' too! I posted some links on a thread earlier, off to find it for you. Hang in there, don't beat yourself up about this.

here, lots of links, sorry you'll be up all night if you read it all but there might be something useful in there

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Oh, poor you hatter. I think it sounds like you did everything right too, honsestly. You didn't give in, you told her you loved her. I think it's easy to be over-shocked both at the depth of our transient negative emotions towards our kids and at theirs towards us as parents. I'll bet practically everyone has had a whack or two directed at them by their passionately angry sprogs, not to mention felt an occasional great longing to whack them back- your resistance while at a low ebb is nothing short of heroic. Is her behaviour generally ok or is she in the throes of the f'ing fours?

wow - instant responses - thanks so much. Guess what? whilst upstairs composing my posting I burnt a chicken carcass to a char. I was trying to be domesticated and make stock. serves me right. no doubt this will be one of those evenings I'll smile about one day.

I am feeling better it's just of those times when you think: I really didn't expect it to be THIS hard.

What does anyone think to the fact that normally if she has a strop, but then she calms down and asks nicely she'll get whatever it was (assuming it was a reasonable request)? Or should we just say that any strop means she doesn't get whatever it was? I feel a bit confused about that coz where do you draw the line? How are you consistent? I think I confused her tonight because she did manage to ask quite calmly in the end but I still said no (which meant instant stroppiness again). Is a 4-year old up to understanding that this was a different level of strop?

Glad your feeling better, hatter.

Personally I think it's fine to respond to reasonable requests once she calms down and asks nicely unless, as in this instance, the strop has been so major and elongated that it's left no time for pleasure before the the next essential activity- eg: bedtime, going to nursery. So I tend to say to mine "If you don't calm down/put your pjs on/eat your tea/whatever there will be no time for story/telly/pudding/whatever." That gives them a kind of time-limit for compliance so you can be consistentish whether they go for stubborn insuboordination or a miraculous volte face. (E.g. "I'm so glad you've calmed down- let's read the story now." is fine but so is "I wish you'd calmed down earlier. Then we'd have had time to read the story before bedtime but now we don't." I do totally agree with WWW's earlier point about it being fine to show them you have a snapping point too though- occasionally consistency goes out the window while I hop about seething, I'm afraid.

No wink intended there.

I think 4yos should be allowed to express their feelings... after all, plenty of adults have to strop about too, before we can calm down and be rational. So not fair to try to ban strops, but still fair to encourage that strops be short-lived and don't get them what they want. I would imagine that in some perfect world you'd say "I know you're very angry, but I need you to calm down, ask nicely, and then we can discuss [meaning, "negotiate"] what to do".

I am so far from a perfect and I dare not hope even a good parent not sure I have much to add.... but only thing I think I might have done differently in the initial situation when they were fighting over the stool is pull back and ask the children to sort out between themselves how to share turns sitting on the stool before I would have read the book to anybody. Just because, as it was, your DD2 seem to "win" by how things happened. Yes WE know that fighting over a stool was daft, but better that neither child feel hard done by, and better that you not be the one perceived as deciding who gets what, whenever possible.

That last perspective comes straight from the Sibling Rivalry book I pulled out of the library the other week, which talks all about getting your children to solve their own disputes as much as possible!

my 4 year old had elongated strops just like this. He can hit out too. I have felt anger welling up in me, just as you describe, hatter. From what I've seen I think these big strops are normal and certainly don't automatically mean you are doing anything wrong.

I agree with grumpyzebra about letting your child show their anger(up to a point) and getting it out of their system. Also I agree that as children get older it doesn't them no harm to see you have a snapping point too.

I think you were probalby right, in this case, not to give in and read the book to her. Often if my son is out of a strop and asks nicely, I will say yes if I can. But not always.

If I do say no, I make a real effort to make him feel better for asking nicely and stopping the tantrum by saying 'not now, but I will tomorrow' so he has a real reward for being ok again. If he keeps on at me as in 'can you read the book' I just repeat 'tomorrow I will, not now because it's too late and my eyes are too tired '. And if the tears are welling up again, I might ask him if he wants some more bedtime milk, a toy to cuddle in bed, ie something nice, but not giving in to the request that caused the tantrum.

No set formula for this sort of strop though - they are stressful. I sometimes end up shouting more than I should. But in my experience, even the worst of them (and any shouting from me) are soon forgotten. IME tantrumming 4 year old will be like a new child after a good nights sleep.

sorry, moodyzebra, not grumpy.