Seeking help from attachment/gentle parents - dealing with a toddler!

[Mafiti]

Warning - very waffley post. Sorry! It'll give you an idea of what the inside of my head looks like...

My daughter is 2.5 and has just become a big sister 2 weeks ago. She has been starting to push boundaries and exert her will for a good six months so I think her current behaviour is a large dose of normal toddler mixed with a good helping of what-the-f*-just-happened-why-is-this-baby-still-here.

My default setting is to be strict and I get cross very easily because I get so frustrated that whatever it is I'm doing isn't working and so I feel like I'm "doing it wrong" and ultimately failing. I feel like I'm constantly backing myself into corners. The end result is that I get really cross with my daughter, and I have lost my rag with her. I have hit her a handful of times (haven't done so for a couple of months now so I think I've managed to stop that as I can now sense when it is coming and remove myself) but I am still getting far more physical with her than I want to, eg, forcing her to brush her teeth by literally shoving the toothbrush in her mouth and doing it for her when 10 minutes of cajoling and distraction and getting cross and counting to three haven't worked; pinning her down at nappy changes; dragging her along the pavement by one arm when she refuses to move and again my other techniques haven't worked.

I don't want to be this parent. I want to show her love and patience, especially at a time when she is going to be processing a huge change in her life and doesn't yet have the ability to express her feelings about it. Please help me! I've particularly asked for help from attachment/gentle parents because I don't identify myself as one of those and can't see alternatives to the way I'm doing things.

I can't seem to find the balance between being as patient as possible with her and making sure she knows where the boundaries are. I'm being very inconsistent with her because I start off with patience but when that doesn't work I snap and go straight to uber cross which must be very confusing for her. I feel like I just need some more tools in my arsenal. I'll use our biggest battle as an example: brushing teeth.

She has had a toothbrush and happily gummed around in it from the age of six months. At some point in the last six months, she's using teeth brushing time to stall and say no. Her main tactic is just to chat -a lot- because that doesn't give me any space in the conversation to give her instructions. it's getting harder and harder. She'll usually come into the bathroom with a bit of cajoling but then she'll pout and refuse to do her teeth. We used to have a song - that doesn't work any more. Peppa pig toothbrush - doesn't work any more. We say the dentist will be sad and sometimes pretended to phone him. We count to three. We say nothing and try and ignore the chatting. If I end the tooth brushing process, she'll really kick off and scream that she's got dirty teeth and we have to brush them. Inconsolable. All of this makes it feel like she is very much in control.

So very long story short - when patience/cajoling/turning it into a game etc doesnt work, WHAT DO YOU DO?

We have the tooth brushing battle every morning and evening. Same for getting dressed, at least half her nappy changes, one times when out and about. And I can't spend 45 minutes getting her teeth brushed when I've got a 2 week old baby screaming for a feed. HELP.

OMG reading your post I felt terrified for your toddler. She is a baby. Everything she does is influenced by the fact that she is a baby. She is far to young to be plotting against you and thinking ' how can I make my Mothers life more miserable today.' ?
You have just had another baby and so you have rocked her world and her place in it. Instead of comforting her, you are SHOUTING at her and actually hitting her.

How would you like it if the boot was on the other foot? Imagine you are old and frail and she comes to see you ( if she wants to after your treatment of her) you accidently spill porridge down the front of you because you have arthritis. You can't help it and then your Dd slaps you and shouts at you?

You are actually abusing her. Would you want to open your mouth if the action of someone else was making you gag?
Please get help at once as I think you need to do something about your anger towards this poor helpless little girl.
You are going to get ONE go at bringing this little girl up and providing her with a stable and happy childhood. Where does slapping and shouting come in a happy childhood?
Every time you count to ten and every time you show the utmost patience, when they are older your children will repay you in shedloads.
I know it it hard as I have been there but you have to treat your children as YOU would like to be treated WITH RESPECT.
Smacking, shouting, pulling and shoving has no place in bringing a child up.
I was brought up without any respect and I and my siblings hated my Father.
If you carry on in this vein your DD will have problems at school as she will be shouting and smacking others and although she won't remember your words, she will remember her feelings. She won't like you.

Stop trying to clean her teeth for the moment. Calm down yourself and show her that you love her. Make her confident that you are not going to force the toothbrush into her mouth. Get her an electric tooth brush and an egg timer to watch and let her try her self. She doesn't trust you not to choke her.
I know you are tired as it is damn hard but PLEASE PLEASE BE Patient.

I had hoped to make clear in my post that I don't want to parent this way but it is how I and my siblings were brought up and I am struggling to think of how to do it differently. I want to show my daughter love and patience and I need some help coming up with new things to try. The toothbrush/egg timer suggestion is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thank you.

It's not an easy time for her, but it's not exactly easy for you wither I expect. I think you should be commended for trying to change, breaking the cycle. She is small enough that her selfish, angry outburst are okay - normal for her age, even. But not easy to deal with at all.

On the toothbrushing thing, one that worked for us, was to give her a toothbrush to brush your teeth with (taking it in turns). The game, and the equality, helped her feel in control.

Be kind to yourself, as well as to her. You will get there.

Gosh, I'm in the total opposite camp to the person above. I think your reactions are absolutely normal and stem from that build up of frustration you get when you are being controlled/played by this tiny little person who is of the belief that the world revolves around them.
My DS is the same with teeth brushing, some days he will do it no problem other days he will put the pet lip on or clamp a hand across his mouth. He is starting to understand the concept of 'sugarbugs' now which come from biscuits etc and eat our teeth if we don't clean them. If he doesn't brush his teeth he isn't allowed to eat biscuits - it's a consequence he is beginning to understand. Sometimes he in lazy mood and won't do it, so he gets the option of brush your teeth properly or mummy will do it for you (this threat follows with a lot of things ie put X down by the time I count to 3 or mummy will do it for you) that seems to work. Other days he just says 'mummy do it' and passes me the toothbrush. He then sits on my knee with a towel wrapped around him so his arms are down and then we brush usually counting down slowly from ten and on one I brush his tongue which he finds hilarious, then he's allowed to run off. We still have battles when he's tired and grumpy but on the whole it's a lot more relaxed. Teeth brushing is one battle we don't give in on.
Nappies - also a battle a lot of the time, we have reduced nappy changes to 3-4 times a day at most unless he's had a poo of course and try and use pull ups as he doesn't have to by laid down. Nappies claim to have 12hrs of dryness and he doesn't suffer from nappy rash so it works for us.
The one arm drag - next time you are out take the time to watch others and see how often this happens, usually when DC throws a strop in the middle of a car park or whilst crossing the road. Everyone does it at some point, usually in panic, often in frustration. I have bought something called a hip seat which is like a massive ugly bumbag. 2yr old sits on it in those situations so everyone is safe (inc my back) and I've found DS really likes being up there as we can have a chat and a cuddle (and lots of lovely kisses) as we walk which prevents a major meltdown.
Shouting - it is always going to happen at some point; I didn't understand frustration quite like it until I had a toddler, the whinging, dear god the whinging, and the constant sabotaging of anything and everything, whether theyunderstand that's what they are doing or not, it's soooooo frustrating! Add that to dealing with a new born so you are currently being tortured with sleep deprivation a body that is in recovery, constant feeds and being trapped in the house, urgh! Myself and DH attended parenting courses and our preferred method in the 'time-in' method. I have commented on a couple of other threads about this so see if you can find it (check out the toddler behaviour threads) if you can't find it and are interested pm me and I'll get back to you with the idea.
However all things you will need to implement with your toddler take time which maybe something you are short of with a newborn. My biggest bit of advice, if you can, seek some support from your friends and family. Also it may be time for a timeout with toddler in the form of nursery, even if it's just a half day a week.
There is no such thing as supermum, everyone has their Achilles heal, (mine is the whinge). Find out what it is about your DDs behaviour that triggers your frustrations and work on that first. If you can control your emotions first then you will be in a calmer position to tackle the behaviour.
If all that fails channel the mantra 'she's not a t&@t she's just a 2yr old' and lock yourself in the bathroom until you have stopped the tears. You'll get there it just takes time and practice (which lets face it you'll get lots of with a 2yr old). Keep going! Xxxx

With the tooth brushing thing she's telling you she wants you to take control. She wants you to show her that you can calmly and confidently deal with the emotions that she's experiencing (which are huge even without a new baby to add to the mix) because she can't deal with them. That's why she kicks off when you say 'fine we won't brush your teeth today then'.

I think the most important thing for you to do is to accept that she will be upset sometimes and that's ok. And when she is upset it is her issue, not yours. You don't need to be angry just because she is. What you do need to do is guide her through it, let her know that it is ok to feel angry about brushing your teeth when you don't want to, there's nothing wrong with her and there's nothing to be scared of with regards to how she feels. While you do this (accepting her feelings and allowing her to express them) you gently help her to brush her teeth. You could give her a choice about how it is done, "would you like to have a turn to brush first or would you like me to brush them all today?" she might not want to make a decision or she might choose neither of these things in which case I would say "I can see you don't want your teeth brushed tonight, we need to keep the clean so they don't get sore so I'm going to come and help you get it done" and then you do it. Afterwards you acknowledge again that she was angry/upset about getting her teeth brushed and let her express those emotions until they're dealt with.

It sounds like your main problem (aside from breaking the cycle of your own upbringing which is soo difficult and you're doing brilliantly to realise what you need to change) is that you let your daughter's emotions rule your own, you need to take a step back and let her experience the unpleasant feelings so she learns that there is nothing wrong with them and she can express them and you will still be there to love her even when she feels at her worst.

Also, I think some people equate gentle parenting with permissive parenting. It absolutely isn't. You don't just need to shrug and say 'ok darling, whatever you want!' And you don't need to spend an hour trying to convince your child to do what you want to do using expressive dance and finger puppets and it also doesn't mean becoming a martyr, you need to take care of yourself too.

Saw on another thread recently a good tooth brushing idea - Thomas and friends (or Peppa, whoever really) are the teeth and need a good cleaning before bed.

But honestly, don't beat yourself up. We've all been that parent to some degree at some time. Being aware of it and trying to change is the first step, so you are already on your way!

I go through cycles of getting less patient and toddler behaviour deteriorating. The key (for me) is to make time for really quality moments with my toddler to re-establish their security. Behaviour does seem to magically improve (picking my battles, choosing to laugh off the small things, and getting out the house are also big helpers).

Hang in there, you WILL be doing a better job than you think.

Also, at toothbrushing time we choose and lay out a story first as an incentive for if tooth brushing is done properly with no complaining (only had to go without the story once I think).

If I'm feeling less mean then I have 'mummy chooses the story' as the option for non-compliance rather than 'no story'!

I think you were given a really hard time by the first reply - you are clearly trying not to be like that (and we all know that in times of stress we revert to what we know, it's instinct, - it takes a lot to change that - and you have started so well done!)

It is really hard to deal with any other child when you have a new baby and are lacking sleep etc.

My 2 year old is hard work and she is the youngest. To avoid the arm drag I put her in the pushchair pretty much at all times. At least then I can strap her in firmly (and gently) rather than dragging, when I really need to get her somewhere! With teeth brushing have you tried a reward chart - she sounds pretty switched on and might respond to that already? Tbh with teeth brushing I would walk away. Same with nappy changing, unless it's a poo and we need to go out (so she needs a clean nappy) then there is a certain amount of pin down - as long as I'm not angry just gently forceful I think that's how it has to be. Deep breaths help! Same with getting her into the car seat if we need to go somewhere.

But you need some self-care for you. Time out and help - you are only 2 weeks into having 2 children, you need some kind of a break and I am hoping you are not doing it all alone 24/7? As soon as possible some kind of exercise (walking?) and try to learn mindfulness techniques.

I really sympathise. Ds has just turned three and is simultaneously amazing and aggravating all the time. Dh works shifts, my job is hectic and life is stressful. Throw potty training into the mix (or a new baby in your case) and all hell breaks loose! Ds has been extraordinarily clingy recently and on a fuse and I do lose my temper and end up doing the 'DO NOT RUN INTO THE ROAD' one armed drag more often than I'd like. Triggers here are hungry/ tired/overwrought so try to keep things calm. Best of luck x

I guess I am sort of an attachment parent - I do breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing etc - but I'm certainly not a perfect parent.
I can understand where your rage comes from as sometimes I feel it too, but we have to control it and set an example to our kids. It helps me to remember that discipline isn't about controlling your kids, it's about teaching them how to deal with different situations. So something doesn't work - it's ok, they're learning, you'll chalk it down to experience and try something different next time. Avoid stand-offs wherever you can - eg offer two acceptable options, and talk positive ('when you've done X then we'll go to the playground' instead of 'if you don't do X there'll be no playground for you!')
It'll be hard for you at the moment, with hormones and sleep deprivation, but the most important thing I think you can do is really work on building the bond between you and your daughter. Spend time really listening to her, give her lots of cuddles, show her photos of herself as a baby and talk about all the happy memories you have, go out somewhere she loves and give her lots of attention, read books snuggled up together, take her for a drink and cake in a cafe (with baby hopefully asleep) and aim to enjoy her company. If she trusts you and loves you, she will want to please you as she gets older (you need to think long-term too - 2 year olds do mostly just want to please themselves!). I have a 4 year old who can be stubborn and infuriating ( and was very hard work as a toddler) but we have a very close bond and she gets upset if she thinks she's made me sad/cross now.
Different things work for different children, but what worked for her was to give her responsibility and choice - at age 2.5 she chose her own clothes and dressed herself with minimal help, before potty training we used pull-up nappies as she hated lying down for changes, she chose toothbrushes in the supermarket and we used to do the thing of letting her brush our teeth (with our own toothbrush) too.
There are some good parenting books, maybe borrow some from the library and take the ideas you like from them. And if you're feeling like you might be depressed/anxious, definitely seek support.

I think you are a very normal parent. My advice would be to find humour wherever possible eg Let's clean your teeth because it's fun and DD2 doesn't have any yet. Can imagine what milk is like for every meal and not have a carrot stick/biscuit/ Happy Meal. Or ' It's so nice to be with you and your sister, but you really enjoy books and I do too, may be you will be able to help her when she is as clever as you'

Oh wow aren't you a lovely parent clue, try not physically forcing your defenceless 2yo to do stuff and um no she is not 'in control'. If you can't improve please call SS. HTH

Stop being a cunt butterflywings168
OP is 2 weeks into a new baby and there you are kicking her when she's down. Nasty fuck.

Ignoring the supremely unhelpful posts. ...

OP my first thought is that your DP should be doing the teeth battle right now. You will be exhausted with a 2 week old. Let/make him take care of teeth right now! You need support.

Teeth used to make me really cross too. I agree with the poster who said try using humour (even if you don't feel like it...) - this is a great tool in general. I used to tell dd that she definitely was Not Allowed To Sing Let It Go while I brushed her teeth. Definitely not. Then she would start to laugh and open her mouth and sing it and I would say oh no no no that's silly and meanwhile the brush was getting right in there.

Good luck and please make your DP take on some of these battles - you're 2 weeks postnatal!

Thank you for all the suggestions. Bedtime yesterday was a much calmer affair, although it did take 2 hours (DP and I often share bedtime now depending on baby but I've ALWAYS done it (whilst DP cooks dinner) and want to keep doing at least stories so our eldest sees that not everything has to change with a new baby.

Thanks again everyone, I've got lots of things to think about and try out.