Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, new to this forum. My 5 year old constantly lying to try and appear bad.

[JamHeart]

Hi,

Sorry if this is a bit long and rambling, I'm completely worn down with this and wondered if anyone has had a similar experience.

For the past few weeks, my son has started lying constantly, but not in the way I'd expect a 5 year old to lie. He constantly tells me he's done bad things when in fact he hasn't, at all. Lies have ranged from telling me he took scissors to the curtains, hit his brother, called his teacher 'stupid' chased a girl in his class in the playground shouting at her until she cried. I made an appointment with his teacher after he told me about chasing the wee girl, and his teacher and the classroom assistant who monitors the playground both said that no such incident happened, that he's a well-behaved, respectful boy and is happy playing with all his classmates at break times.

When he wakes up in the morning I try to be extra light-hearted and cheerful with him but it never works, the first thing he'll do is say "Mum, will I tell you about that bad thing I just did...". Same goes for when I collect him from school at home-time; I used to get a big smile and a hug and now he'll say hello, I'll ask how his day went and he'll say "I did loads of bad things, mum".

I've tried ignoring it, then I tried cancelling his drum lessons for that week or banning him from playing his Playstation, but that didn't work. I really felt so exhausted and upset this week though and I know I didn't help matters but I feel I've been shouting at him or sending him up to his room every day this week. Someone told me I absolutely shouldn't punish him for lying and should instead try to get to the bottom of why he's doing it, but all he'll tell me is that "I don't know why I tell lies but I just do it". I feel awful now that I've set it back by losing my cool and punishing him when I wasn't supposed to.

Our home is just a place of tension just now and I just feel I've done something very wrong along the way for him to feel he needs to act out like this. It's only him and his wee brother, I don't work so I spend a lot of time with them, they get a lot of positive attention and praise, and I try my best to go days out and do fun things, and if we can't go out I'm making sand for them out of flour and oil or covering the bath walls in sheets of paper so they can do messy painting...I thought I was giving him everything he needs but I feel I've dropped the ball with this and I would really appreciate if anyone has any advice or opinions for me.

Thanks so much x

Right, I'm not an expert, but it feels to me like he's testing the boundaries of your love for him. He's trying to see if there's any way that he could do something that would make you not love him.

It also sounds like there may be something playing on his mind, the "I'm so bad..." stuff sounds like it may be tinged by anxiety. Is there anything that could have triggered this, that you know of? Can you remember the day/ week when he first started saying it? Was anything unusual going on at that time?

He may also simply be exploring this? I think whatever it is, have you tried lightening the whole thing up? Laughing conspiratorially and saying, "oh no, not my DS! He is lovely, little boy, he would never do such things!" and when he insists or continues, again lighthearted/ laughing say, "nothing you can say will stop me loving him! I don't care if he's ..." and I would be inserting an even more farfetched claim of badness here, so if he's said he's pushed someone over, I'd say I wouldn't care if he'd pushed ten people over, I'd love his naughty soul anyway, that sort of thing. I'd be aiming to get the idea that I loved him unconditionally in every interaction he instigated like this, and I'd keep it playful and light, and be prepared to have to play a lot until he's either reassured and over it or reassured and ready to talk about what is bothering him.

I would try and avoid describing what he's doing as "lying". To me it is more a case of an imagination in overdrive and trying to explore boundaries like OutsSelf describes. I wouldn't punish him for these tall tales either, I would take a light breezy approach too, and try and engage with his story and talk to him.

I really don't think this is a major concern, and I imagine it will fade away in its own time if you can avoid making it a huge focus. Don't try and question him about why he's doing it - he won't have the ability or vocabulary to explain it to you. Also, if you ask him about his day, try and be specific rather than open ended. So ask about the lessons/activities you know he did today, rather than just generally how his day was.

Outsself - Thank you so much. There haven't been any changes within his home environment and as far as he or the teachers have told me he's doing well at school and has friends, so I'm not sure if anything has triggered it. It is really quite a big change in his behaviour this past few weeks so I just hope once I figure out how to deal with it in the right way that he'll be happier soon and won't feel such a need to lie.

I feel terrible that I've been giving him into trouble for it and have never thought of taking that approach. Today's a new day and he's still asleep so I think I'll try and take your approach to it once he wakes up and hopefully we'll have a bit of a calmer day. Thank you very much :)

Culturesucks - I feel so much better having read your comment as well. I feel like a bit of a failure after having given him into trouble so much for it this week. I will absolutely try and take a lighter approach to it all today. Also you're right, I always ask "how was your day at school?" but I'll be sure to try and ask more specific questions to see if I can get him to talk with me about what he did at school, rather than asking how it was and getting "I did loads of bad things".

I can't tell you how much I appreciate yours and Outsself's help - I was in tears last night with not having a clue how to deal with it in the right way. I feel a lot more positive today, thanks :)

My daughter, now 8, has often made things up in the past. Not necessarily naughty but about things she has done or that have happened at school. I can normally tell when she's lying so I say "did that really happen or did you make it up?"
She'll normally admit she made it up. I don't really tell her off for it just say something like "you need to watch out otherwise your pants will catch fire"

It's not necessarily something you've done - it may even be that someone else at school is boasting about doing similar things and your son is trying to copy. You may never know why but just try not to make it a big deal.

It sounds to me as though he has become interested in the concept of being good and being bad, and is exploring the idea of badness through fantasy because it is something he doesn't actually want to do in real life, but finds fascinating. Think of it as a stage in his moral development expressed through fantasy play - like telling you about how day went as an astronaut. Does that make sense? You could maybe join in the fantasy to bring about a happy resolution, eg saying "Oh, no! Not the curtains! What a lot of seeing you will have to do later on to mend them!"

Sewing, not seeing.

The advice given sounds really good. I think he sounds like a very sweet little lad.

Ds (4) is currently going through a 'good' phase - he's become a proper go-by-the-rules goody two shoes lately and is obsessed by good and bad. He's also begun telling fibs - nothing major but we're trying to explain that if he does something wrong it's best to tell the truth straightaway. This has resulted in him turning the tables on us (Mummy tell the truth - did you eat my chocolate?) and becoming a self appointed playground police officer (You shouldn't do that, it's naughty) which we've also had words with him about. I think it's entirely age appropriate behaviour OP and I would probably just ignore it and instead reinforce that it's much better to be kind and helpful etc. It will pass if you consistently ignore it and instead point out and praise everything that is positive instead. Maybe also give him opportunities instead to role play goodies and baddies so you can channel and focus his imagination positively instead.

Glad you are felling positive OP Don't bother yourself about giving him a hard time, it's impossible to think things through totally in the moment. You were just worried because "lying" seems so problematic (if you google lying in young children, you'll get a lot of reassuring articles about how it's developmentally appropriate and not at all a sign that things are going wrong).

Agree with PP that this could also e fantasy play about "good" and "bad" - you could reassure yourself by thinking of his tall tales as a list of things that occurred to him to do, but he held off from! Playful all the way, whatever's happening.

Thanks so much everyone for your help and advice :) I would have tagged or replied to the comments directly but I have no idea how to do that since this i my first post, haha.

It was a bit tiring today but I made sure that I didn't tell him off or make a big deal about it today whenever he told a lie - he initially was a bit angry about me brushing it off and making light of it this morning, but once I picked him up from school he tried it a few times and then it settled down. We went over to the park after dinner and he didn't try to tell me he'd done anything bad the entire evening and went to bed happy. I could cry with relief. I'd have likely continued with telling him off/sending him on a time-out had I not sought your advice. You're all definitely more on-the-ball parents than I am. Thanks so much :) Hoping if I just stick with this approach and keep praising the positive things then he'll get over this wee phase soon.

Thanks so much!

Not encountered behaviour like this but I'd be tempted to match each of his tall tales with those of mummy's nefarious deeds that day. Bound to make him squirm and snap out of it...

Just to add my (non expert) point of view. I was wondering if it was about attention. Do you feel as though he's maybe saying these things so that you pay attention to what he's saying and interact with him. Not meaning to be in any way derogatory but maybe he's feeling a bit left out at home if you're at home with his little brother and he's just in school? Maybe he feels like he needs to make things up to gain your attention? Could they be possible? If that was it it would be easy to remedy!

That sounds so positive, JamHeart. I think it's always easier to see from the outside than the inside, that's why parenting forums are so useful. I've been helped loads, here too so it's nice to help others. I bet there's loads you've got nailed and can help others with - I wouldn't like to bet on anyone being on the ball all the time!

If you are interested on developing a lighthearted approach, I read and liked Playful Parenting by Lawrence somebody, it was useful to me because my default is quite serious and earnest. When I remember to stay in playful mode, nothing really gets on top of us. When I remember...

I'm intrigued by his 'drum lessons'! Is that for real??

As a TA I taught music at primary schools for twenty years: keyboard, recorder, and percussion. I coached Year 2 children to accompany the Christmas production for ten years. So I am all for children being involved in music from as young an age as possible.

Maybe write down some of his 'stories', or capture them on a tape recorder. They can be used in his Literacy lessons in a year or two!