Dealing with a 4yo picky eater: just started trying to fix it and need advice

[evertonmint]

DD is 4.6yo and over the past 18 months, but particularly recently, her eating has become pickier and mealtimes have become torture. We've ended up doing all that cajoing, using dessert as a threat, comparing to her brother, feeding her rather than letting her do it herself etc - all that stuff I swore I would never do :(. She refuses to come to the table or screams or says it's yucky or refuses to eat or on one occasion made herself sick. Mealtimes have been awful recently, and embarrassing when staying with friends or family.

DH and I had a heart to heart about it and did a bit of reading around the subject. I made a list of all the things she will eat (some with cajoling, some freely) and came up with 30 easily. This made me feel better about her nutritionally. DH and I also realised that we were spoilt with DS who is 7, has some very specific dislikes, but generally has always eaten a broad diet and large quantities. And we are good eaters, good cooks, and I suspect are treating her like mini adults rather than remembering that we probably weren't eating like this as children. So we decided to ease right back.

So we decide what the meal is. And then they decide whether they eat and how much they eat. The only rule is that they have to finish their glass of water and be gracious at the table (no complaining about it being yucky, no screaming etc), but there are no rules about what they eat, and absolutely zero comment/cajoling from us - we just chat about their day etc.

So far so good - mealtimes are instantly better tempered and more relaxed.

But she hasn't eaten a vegetable since we started even though she previously would eat them, sometimes without cajoling. I even got her to choose a veg at the supermarket today as part of the making food fun thing (she chose red cabbage which she has eaten once or twice) but she refused to eat it. So it feels like this is a backward step nutritionally.

Do I just stick with it? Will she eventually start eating veg again? Do I need to manipulate the amount of the other things on her plate so she is hungry enough to eat veg? For example, I served her the usual 3 fishfingers and she only ate those, no mash or veg. Should I cut her down to 1 fishfinger so she's hungrier for her veg? Or should I let her have the same amount as normal?

Any other thoughts? I ended up asking her to at least lick a piece of the red cabbage which she did fairly ungraciously, and then immediately felt terrible that I had already started manipulating things again.

I want mealtimes to be fun, and I want our 9mo to not be eating in a horrid atmosphere while he is learning to eat. But I also want her to eat some veg...

Yes you just stick with it. Don't go back to cajoling again.

Does she need to eat veg as part of a hot meal? How about starting the meal off with some veg sticks and houmous instead or putting some raw cabbage or cauliflower out for those who prefer them uncooked?

Does she need veg in the main meal if she's eaten it in a different form at lunchtime?

She will either start eating veg in her own time or end up being an adul who never eats veg which is quite unusual. Either way, it's up to her to make that decision and up to you to make sure that the essentials are available to her some of the time in a form she finds palatable.

No advice from me I'm afraid but watching with interest as I have a 4.6 yo fussy eater and it's torture!

She has got better over recent months in that she will eat some vegetables now but mealtimes can take over an hour for her to eat three mouthfuls....and that is with a lot of 'encouragement'. If we leave her she won't eat anything, all this stuff about they won't starve themselves - they haven't met my daughter! She really would starve herself rather than eat something she doesn't want to.

She really would starve herself rather than eat something she doesn't want to.

There's no reason why that should ever be the only option open to her.

You need to take a less extreme view. It shouldn't be about a battle of wills. You need to remove your will from the equation and see your role as just to provide your child with a selection of food. It's your child's job to decide what to put in her mouth. Once you have your head around that principle, the battle of wills is over and you don't have to think of her starving herself or having to be 'encouraged'.

Some children with neurodevelopmental disorders will starve themselves rather than choose to put anything in the mouths. They need specialist help and, if you think your DD falls into that bracket, you should ask for a referral to someone who specialises in eating disorders.

If she doesn't and is just reacting to the pressure to eat, you can solve the problem by ceasing your battle for control.

Provide a selection of food with reasonably healthy amounts of the foods you know she will find reasonably palatable (plus other food if you want her to become familiar with the sight and smell of it) and then take a big step back. Talk to her but not about food. Sit with her and eat your own food and then clear away after a reasonable length of time. Allow her to get down as soon as she's finished and don't comment in any way on what she has eaten.

Allow hunger to make her feel more inclined to eat at the next meal. Food really does taste an awful lot better if you are properly hungry but don't use hunger as a punishment. If she's hungry at bedtime, let her have a healthy snack or a drink of milk.

If she eats nothing at a meal, clear away without comment, keep all those emotions inside, smile, chat and just serve the next meal as normal.

Thank you goldmandra. You're right - I do just need to stick with it and not revert to cajoling.

She likes raw carrot and tomatoes so I tend to serve those with one meal a day. I might try some of the other stuff raw too (I have a load of red cabbage left after yesterday's refusal to try it!) in case that interests her.

Would you hold back on the carbs? So she ate all her pasta the other day and asked for more while veg and fish was still on her plate. I didn't have any more as it was leftovers, but usually do have extra. Would you offer a second helping even if other things are untouched? Or do I just put an appropriate amount on the plate at the start and just say it's all gone in the hope she might then fill up on the veg or meat?

My 6 yo is fussy, though I am pretty lucky as she does like fruit and veg. She likes really plain food and it can be tricky to get her to eat meat/fish. This is how we tackle it.
I cook the food and she is expected to eat it, sometimes we have to reminder her to hurry up if she is talking a lot and not eating.

I serve up a balanced meal and if she wants more then she has to finish what is on her plate (or she would eat a huge plate of plain pasta and nothing else as your DD did).

She has to eat a reasonable amount of dinner or no fruit/yog after (eg more than half and we give her pretty small portions).

If the meal is something new then she has to try one bite to see if she likes it and can't make rude comments about things being 'yuck'.

No snacking after dinner, very occasionally if she has eaten all her dinner and still wanted more I would give her something like a banana before bed but not if she has left half her dinner saying she was full and then is asking for something else 30 mins later.

Sounds regimented but we find we need to be or DD would be leaving all her meals and begging for snacks all the time.

We are calm about it and dinner times are generally pleasant, but it still can be very frustrating feeding a picky eater day in day out.

Hope that helps you a bit.

Would you offer a second helping even if other things are untouched?

I wouldn't personally offer more carbs as long as it was reasonable to expect her to eat the other food available to her. If that meant that she ate less at that meal time, the hunger she would experience by the next meal time would make her more likely to eat a decent amount.

Personally, I wouldn't plate it up for her. I would place serving dishes on the table and allow each person to take a reasonable portion of what they liked. If they wanted more of the pasta and I felt they had had enough, I would say so but add that they were welcome to take some of the other food if they were still hungry. Then I would still permit a sensible amount of fruit/dessert afterwards but, again, not extra to make up for what was missing.

I have always found that children are more likely to eat something if they are the ones who have decided to put it on their plate in the first place. There is less pressure to eat foods if they are in a serving dish and that reduces the anxiety, thereby supporting their appetite and enabling them to take and eat the amount they feel is manageable.

It also helps me because food left in a serving dish feels less like a waste. It can be saved and served again another time, whereas we tend to throw food away once is has been on someone's plate.

I have a still fussy 8yo who is getting better all the time. We've never forced or cajoled her to eat but we do consider what she will eat when we plan meals. I know she won't eat salad and so if we have something with salad she usually has baked beans or sweetcorn instead.
She has now started to eat chips and the odd bit of potato. She tried sag aloo from the takeaway tonight and said she thought she might like it some day.
I do put dishes on the table and I do let her eat what she wants to an extent, I have raw carrot sticks in the fridge because it's something she will eat.
I have another daughter who I brought up in exactly the same way and she eats almost anything.

I just wanted to agree with Goldmandra about allowing children to serve themselves. My DD1 was quite a fussy eater as a toddler and I have found she always eats better if she has more choice- or feels she does. I regularly do what my DDs call a 'whatever you like' lunch/dinner where I just put everything in bowls, with a bit more variety than normal, and they help themselves. A bit like a picnic inside.

Op you're doing the right thing, stick with it. I have a fussy 10 yo and a non fussy 6 yo. They can eat what's in front of them or not. Fruit and yoghurt for after and they can always help themselves to fruit or veg (carrot, cucumber etc) if they're hungry. I do ask dd1 to finish veg but this is recent because she was eating none and I think she's of an age where we can ask her to eat it without using consequences or threats.

I have, for years, made hidden vegetable sauce. I add it to pasta, pizza, chicken, meatballs etc and I make huge vats of it and freeze it in portions. Basically I chop onions, aubergine, courgette, pepper, butternut squash etc, drizzle with olive oil, add a bunch of thyme, some garlic and a cup of water. It roasts in the oven for about 2 hours on very low, and when it comes out it gets blended with tins of tomatoes (remove thyme first!). Goes on everything and my kids love it, it's a great extra vegetable. Might get some veg into your dc without them realizing or you having an issue with it.

Hi. Did you clean her whilst she ate or let her get really mucky and congratulate her for it being everywhere.
Reason I'm asking is that we learn language before we speak it. If you say something like 'oh look at you all mucky' , or make a noise to mean that , body language gesture etc than wipe her face - your teaching her food is dirty they then start to associate certain textures , tastes as bad then fussy eating occurs.
Have fun play sessions with different textures of food and non food stuff - shaving foam, jelly, cold cooked pasta, cooky dough etc. play with it, smear it over a tray. Get your hands and toys filthy. Taking it back to basics will help massively.
Saying if you don't eat this you won't get pudding is actually saying eat something disgusting to get something nice. It highlights that some food is horrid.
Get her cooking the tea with you. Make games out of dinner. Who can set their place the fastest. Who can make a face out of their food on the plate. No pressure on eating the food just concentrate on having fun. Manners etc can come later.
The reason for messy play sessions is all about eating and learning. Also make tea parties on the sitting room floor. Make funny places to eat. Sat on the stairs. Your sat in a line and have to pass food up and down the line. Make a den with sheet and chairs and eat in their. Take the pressure off you have to sit and eat and turn it into a fun activity.
When they are older you'll have conversations remembering the fun daft things you did.
But really concentrate on the messy food play. You'll need to do it for quite a while to get her used to it.

There's a great book called Mange Tout, encourages children to play with food and therefore be more adventurous .... We spent a while "cleaning our teeth" with cucumber strips

This is all so hugely helpful, thank you!

We did baby led weaning and were very relaxed about mess vs no mess, and have always had picnics, tea parties etc (still do). Her food issues started to appear around 3, though only really bad since she turned 4. She would eat curry in Indian restaurants aged 2: I thought we'd cracked it's and had a second in fussy eater. Sigh...

I will definitely play with food more. She has been describing a clown face made of food she did at nursery so I'll ask her to show us how to do it

I'll also do the dishes of food for her to choose from.

The interesting thing has been taking proper note of how she speaks about liking food but doesn't. So she told her brother the red cabbage was yummy though couldn't bring herself to eat it, and she just mentioned it when telling me what she wants with her roast dinner today. So mentally she is clearly considering these things, and I have to hope one day she will actually eat them.

It has also led me to realise that her 7yo brother gets away with never trying new things - and being more vehement about it - because he eats a much broader diet, and bigger quantities, than her. He probably needs a bit more of the one-bite approach to be honest but I'll wait until DD is in a better place before tackling him directly on that. Hated food going on his plate of the rest of us have it though - one family, one meal for us all from now on, regardless of who the fussy one is!

Certainly DD's attitude at the table has already improved loads following the improvement in ours, and meals are calm and chatty again So it's just getting her to relax enough to eat now.

With the dishes where they select their own, if they don't then eat it do you just accept it without comment? Or do you make a point before/after that they need to at least try anything they select? Is them just putting it on their plate good enough?

Personally, if my DC haven't eaten their veg, I do comment on it and remind them how healthy vegetables are for their bodies. What I don't do is to persuade / negotiate / bribe in any way. So at the end of the day it's their decision whether or not to eat the veg.

In answer to your earlier question about carbs, my DD age 7 is a carb monster and will often ask for more pasta, rice or bread even she hasn't eaten the protein or veg on her plate. My approach is to let her have more (and offer it to everyone else too) buy try not to cook too much in the first place, and even it's gone, it's gone.

I know my mum tended to cook a big bowl of carbs for us to 'fill up on' - maybe yours did the same? I have had to train myself to do smaller portion sizes as my instinct is to cook far too much carbs.

I'm from a carbs + sugar as treat + finish your plate as children are starving in Ethiopia background. I have issues now with food/weight that I'm working on (successfully so far) that I'd rather my kids don't have, hence trying to fix it now before she hits that really body conscious phase.

Or do you make a point before/after that they need to at least try anything they select?

Choosing to put it on their plate is a step towards eating it. They get to explore the smell and the texture in a non-threatening way and this can make it a lot easier to eventually put it in their mouth. The more familiar a food is, the safer it feels to eat it. You don't want to discourage this by making it impossible to explore the food without putting it in their mouths.

If they are taking a fair bit of food and not eating it on a regular basis, I would ask that they reduce what they take so that less is wasted if they don't eat it. That doesn't put any pressure on anyone to eat and, in fact, could work in a reverse psychology kind of way as you're then being seen to want to withhold the food rather than thrust it upon them.