So worried about almost 5yo DD's behaviour, WWYD?

[ThePinkPlanet]

I've namechanged because this happened today and I might be recognised.

DD is nearly 5, and has always been kind of moody and grumpy by nature, but also very smart, funny, affectionate and has lots of fun. It's just that she can really fly off the handle and get into a furious rage at the drop of a hat.

Just recently it has got worse and worse. Multiple strops every day, about ridiculous 2yo-style things like her weetabix having too many crumbs on it, or her brother looking at her. She will scream and yell at whoever has offended her, shouting "I hate you" and sometimes hitting (though she knows this is not on and you can see she will try to avoid actually hitting, e.g. she'll hit the table, or lash out but deliberately miss you). If she's told off/gets a consequence she will yell "It's YOUR fault I did that!" (Though we still follow through with all the consequences, pasta jar, sticker system and all that, no TV, going to her room etc.).

OK that's the background - but although she's like this at home, she has always been good at nursery - which I found reassuring because at least she can control it and is just acting out for us.

Recently she's been upset when I collect her from nursery because she doesn't want to leave and stop whatever she's doing. (This is despite not wanting me to leave her at nursery in the mornings... sigh) But just a bit grumpy, and usually cheers up. Today it went totally tits up. She started scowling at me for coming to get her, then when a teacher asked her nicely to stop playing and come over, she went apeshit, threw a toy across a table full of kids playing, screamed and hit me. I tried to be v firm and made her apologise but I was so mortified and just wanted to get her out of there. I was very, very cross and pulled her to the car kicking and screaming and had to wrestle her into her car seat. I really told her off and said I couldn't believe how she'd behaved and said that I was really cross (which I know she hates). She was in floods of tears :(

I feel like the shittest parent ever and I'm also really worried. She starts school this year, what if she is like this at school? I don't know if it's something we've done or something she's upset about. We are trying to be firm, consistent and stay calm about the bad behaviour and very positive and praising when she's good, which she can be. We are generally very close, and I've tried talking to her and asking why she does it, but she doesn't know and says she can't help it. I also tend towards health anxiety and I can't help worrying if something is wrong.

We have a stable family life, DP and I get on, we argue and bicker sometimes but not that much, there's no violence or abuse, no recent upheavals, she gets attention and affection all the time. She has a big brother who is sometimes exasperated but mainly kind to her.

Sorry for the essay. I feel like we've been trying really hard and it's just been shown to me that we're doing shockingly badly. I am also really exhausted with the endless strops, and I'm sorry for her too that she's so often unhappy. I keep waiting for her to grow out of it..... she doesn't. Please help me with tips if you have any, or just tell me if you had a child like this and things did improve. TIA.

quick bump

I'm not sure I can be much help but didn't want to read and run. It sounds like you're doing everything you can with setting boundaries and teaching your DD the kind of behaviour that is and isn't acceptable. Could you perhaps talk to your HV? They might be able to give you some support or suggest something you may not have thought of?

Could she be very tired? From experience, I get monstrous behaviour when LO exhausted. Different child once in bed and ready to conk out. Nursery does really challenge them and it is a stimulating, enjoyable day.

Thanks magpie that is a good idea - I seem not to have heard anything from HV for ages and I'm sure we saw more of them when DS was a preschooler. I will make an appt.

Monday she is tired after nursery, but she'll also be like this first thing in the morning or at any time! She has a regular bedtime and gets 10-11 hours sleep a night. She does sometimes wake up in the early hours and come through into our bed, but then goes straight back to sleep.

She is a terrible eater though. I worry about whether she gets a healthy diet because she's so picky, but GP have put her on multivitamins and also seems to think what she does eat is ok.

Hey OP, I don't know if this is helpful but I just wanted to empathize. Our 4.5 year old BIT a friend of his at preschool on Friday - then kicked a garbage can, resfused to say sorry and threw a massive tantrum. We were mortified I can tell you and feel so concerned. He is a wonderful, bubbly, happy soul 99% of the time but lately we are seeing some really bad tantrums with hitting, kicking, biting, spitting - as you mention, we were not as concerned becuse it was only at home. This is the first time at preschool. I feel such anxiety over it. We are so close, we love him so much. We want everyone to see what a wonderful boy he is - not think of him as that naughty biting kid. He is starting school in September too.

Twice last week we put him for a time out for outright defiance and he refused to sit, kept attacking us, laughing even at times. These were both in the early evening so I sent him straight to bed - forced him into pjs, told him he must be tired to be acting so poorly and that we were worreid about him, shovel his food in while he sat in bed, no bath, no stories, lights off, took away any toys he chucked at us.

So after this big incident on Friday - we wrote out our family rules on a piece of poster-board with him and posted up on the wall. We outlines consequences we could come up with too. Then we set up a sticker chart for him for following the family rules. Good days equal a sticker (we went to the store and he picked out some lightning mcqueen stickers) 5 stickers = movie night with popcorn.

We'll see how it goes. We try to be gentle but firm. We talk a lot about feelings. We give a lot of praise. I just wanted you to know your not alone and I'm watching responses with great interest too!

You've mentioned she is starting school in September, could this be making her anxious? From January onwards the several preschools I've worked at have really pushed the idea of school e.g. let's practice sitting nicely on the carpet ready for big school etc.
This can sometimes really upset sensitive children and I've seen many turn to toddler like tantrums and hitting/kicking/biting.

Thanks for your nice post FixItUp, it is very helpful to know it's not just us! - and sorry you're having something similar. I like the Family Rules idea because she often responds well if she feels part of something grown-up, so that could be a positive thing.

Yes that could be right Buttercup. She is very worried about anything new and I do think school is going to be a challenge - not her ability to cope with school, but the new place, new regime etc.

I do talk to her about going to school because it seems important to prepare her, but could tone it down.

I am getting lots of things to try, thank you to everyone who's posting.

I have a stepford child but she also used to do this. There's a marked correlation between her infrequent uncontrollable behaviour and hunger. She's now just turned 6 and still, if she's hungry and tired she will absolutely fly off the handle at the smallest inconsequential thing. Otherwise she's beautifully behaved and apparently a joy to teach.

yes, your post rang bells with me too. My DD1 (6) can be very like this, especially the "YOU made me do that" (e.g. refusal to take responsibility for her own behaviour) and the hating you being cross with her. She has always been good at nursery/school etc. After much soul-searching etc. including an EP assessment (inconclusive...attention issues etc), we have come to the conclusion that she is just inclined to be anxious and this is how she expresses it. The outbursts are usually related to frustration at something she can't control. What we did. Backed off completely with discipline. When she did something wrong, we either ignored it, or used a non-immediate consequence (no tv, usually), with a count-in, to give her a chance to comply/stop etc. We tried very very hard not to shout. For the most part, she is now fairly good (does lash out at sister etc, but nothing beyond the norm). I tell her what I expect in a low, calm voice, and that really seems to work. It's possible that my DD might end up with a very high functioning ASD diagnosis, but I think her issues are largely bound up with anxiety. Like you, the prospect of school was rather alarming, so we didn't talk about it that much. And it went really well. Good luck!

Thanks rhetorician. I think we are worried about being too lax and letting her get away with stuff, so we've been cracking down on the behaviour with immediate consequences - which is often what you're advised to do I suppose, but I can now really see how it ratchets things up and doesn't give her a way out. So just stepping back, giving her a chance to backpedal, with a time set for her to get back on track in order to not lose TV etc.... I am now looking forward to trying this.

I put her to bed just now and talked to her about school and how she felt - she is worried about it, and it doesn't surprise me that she said that, but maybe it's important for her to be able to express it in a calmer way.

There's a marked correlation between her infrequent uncontrollable behaviour and hunger.

Yes, I too had a 'lightbulb' moment years ago when dealing with my 6yr old who on return from school had a full scale, lying on the floor kicking and screaming tantrum over some minor change of plan. Twenty minutes later, having calmed down enough to have a snack and drink, same child was apologising for tantrum and calmly fitting in with new plan.

Rhetorician - my dd is exactly the same 'YOU made me do it', hates being told off or if anyone relays stories of her kicking off. Foot stamping and outright refusals are all too common . Next minute she is sweetness and light, loves you to the earth and back and little miss helpful - all on her terms mind you
There is a family history of aspergers so I am a bit sensitive to that but my psychotherapist friend reckons this is the age they start real independence and it can create mega stroppiness.
Who knows???
I can offer up some though

DD would eat snacks non-stop if she could - she's very hungry, but also super-fussy, so it's difficult to keep her fed without giving her lots of unhealthier stuff. We have recently been trying to reduce the junk and the frequency of snacks in an effort to get her to eat her main meals - it hasn't particularly worked though. So maybe I'll try more filling snacks too.

very welcome Summer. She is much better - and will sometimes fess up to things she's done, but is much more likely to do so about things that she knows she isn't going to get into trouble for. So she did something today - accidentally caught her sister on the arm or something, and told me, because she knew I would say "ok dd, be more careful, and it's great that you said sorry".