still not dry/clean at 5 years - help!

[dippica]

Am brand new to MN, and never posted before (but picking up the lingo quickly!) DS2, coming up to age 5, just started Reception. Have had real problems potty training. Still wears nappy pants at night, not reliably dry or clean by day either. He knows exactly what to do and where to do it, but just can?t be bothered. Especially if he?s busy doing something, he just won?t stop to go to the toilet. Has always been stroppily resistant to any suggestion that he goes to the loo. He?s quite a dreamer and isn?t at all bothered when he does a poo in his pants (completely aware that he has done one, and gets cross when you want to ?have a quick check?). He is a bit delayed in other self-help and motor stuff too, like dressing, use of cutlery, pedalling, using scissors, buttons and zips etc. I really hoped that once at school, he would realise that all his classmates just take themselves off to the loo, no problem.

Any similar experiences or tips? ? I know it will sort itself out in the end, but I?ve been saying that since he was three. I know its not right to compare, but DS1 got the hang of it really easily, and was dry at night by 3 years old.

No experience of this myself but just wanted to say 'Hi and welcome' Someone will be along very quickly with wise words

Has he ever been assessed for the physical delays ? I ask becasue ds who is now 8 has had similar motor skill developmental issues which are potentially dyspraxic traits and he also had the odd accident around that age which may have been related. Even now he won't go for a poo until the last minute.

Have a look at \link{http://www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/this site} for further information. It may be worth discussing it with his teacher. To help your ds2 manage himself better, perhaps she can send him to the toilet at regular intervals during the day, give him more structured routines and gentle prompting for other tasks. tbh I'd leave night time toileting for now , many children won't have mastered it by his age.

If you do decide to go for any further assessment -through the school or gp - it may take a while depending where you live so if you have doubts get him at least on a waiting list now.

hth

sorry, link here

My DS1 (Age 5.7 years) is still wearing pull ups at night - he recently had a school medical and they didn't seem overly worried but they said that the main thing to do was to make sure he drinks at least 6 cups of juice / water a day to get his bladder used to holding on for a wee more. The nurse also said to put a pair of cotton pants on under his pull ups so that its not so comfy for him when he wees in the night, then he may make more of an effort to go to the loo... I was stressed about this but have now stopped worrying so much - although I do wonder, will ever be dry at night??!

Instant support and advice - thanks folks! I so wish I knew about Mumsnet before now...!
I have spoken to DS's teacher, and she is really good with him, and not overly concerned just yet - perhaps I'm just impatient!

No advice really, but welcome to mn dipicca.

I'm sure your patience will be the best thing as far as the toilet issue is concerned for the moment.

My nephew wore pull ups at night until eight! He is a very bright boy etc ("gifted") but my sister reckons he's just lazy

DS is just 6 and still in pull ups at night. Because of my nephew, I'm not worried about it yet as I suspect its a family trait. DS has had a history of ear/nose/throat probs and sleeps very heavily. I find it dificult to imagine him being able to wake at night for anything TBH.

Its heartening to see this thread though, as I am too embarrassed to discuss this with friends, incase it leaks (no pun intended) to their children and they might make fun of DS.

By the time he is old enough for sleepovers, I'm hoping it will be sorted.

Will try the tip about pants under the pull ups though.

My only advice would be to try any advice suggested by others, but at the same time try not to get to worried - there are far worse problems children can suffer from and it will sort itself out eventually.

Children vary. My ex husband and I both wet the bed until we were 6 - 8. Genetics plays a part with some children. ALl ours wet the bed until quite old. The twins only stopped last year age 7 with a residential school trip looming. One of them had not had a single dry night ever in 7 years.

Very good radio 4 programme about this I heard - said at least 3 separate conditions/reasons not linked - some genetic, some bladder is just small and grows only when they get to 7+, some other reasons - can't remember. It is very very very wrong to say they're lazy by the way unless you're sure all the medical reasons are not present.

Xenia - I agree its totally wrong to say they're lazy. My sister says that about her DS (in front of him) - she also frequently calls him an idiot, whilst constantly praising her DD as a genious, but that's a whole other issue and I strongly disagree with the way she puts him down all he time.

Back to the subject though; I also remember wetting the bed ntil about 6/7 so it is probably genetic in our family. Thanks for the info on that

A friend of mines dc's wore pullups till age 10ish

No, I'm not worried about the nighttime bit - as someone else says, I'm quite happy to keep him in pull ups at night for however long it takes - its the daytime problems that drive me mad. Interesting that someone said that they should drink more so that their bladder becomes more used to holding more inside. I've temded to limit drinks (not to the point of dehydration, may I add!) because I've assumed that big drinks would make matters worse.

Mine aren't dry cleaned yet either.

I don't know if it's relevant, but DS1 didn't become dry at night until the age of 6.5.

As for being clean at school, I'm afraid that when he was in Year 1 we actually instituted a routine of getting him to go to the loo every morning before school, which did seem to work ie no more accidents. But I do worry that the poor lad will be in therapy for years owing to our repressive regime. But my sister, who is a teacher and has had children in her class with this problem, reckoned it was really a case of being cruel to be kind, iyswim.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone, anyway.

And ignore ArseBiscuits, no idea who you are but you're not funny.

Dippica - that's an interesting point about the big drinks isn't it? I've also read that by taking in more fluid and not going to the loo so often you can "train" the bladder to hold more and for longer periods. So it correlates with the advice about the bigger drinks during the day.

Just want to offer my apologies. I hadn't picked up on the SN aspects of this thread and was genuinely in a silly mood which resulted in the wheeling out of old ArseBiscuits.

If it is any consolation I have a son who has had toileting problems at School and I was not being nasty. Just silly.

Hi I know its easy to say but really, just try to relax about it, my first DS was dry in the night at 2.5. (did it himself) and was dry and clean weeks after that in the day. Never had a wet bed, poo in pants, nothing. DS2, totally different. Would go behind settee to do business and nothing made difference, encouragement, punishment, nothing. In the end he weed on loo/potty from about three, but didn;t start doing number twos in proper place until about four, nearly five! (i was frantic about him starting school although he never did one there) and he wet the bed until he was nearly eight. As I had no success which ever method I used I gave completely up with trying as my mum told me my sister had wet the bed till 11 and she recommended I put a rubber sheet on. I did this and also because he is a big lad no nappies or pull ups would even come close, I ended up using adult incontinence pads at night. Luckily by this time he was ok in day. he was very good about it. He is now eleven and no problems for about three years, so don't look at whatever any other child does, he will have to do it in his own time. IME nothing you say, do or anything will make him do it earlier, in fact the opposite, making him anxious you could prolong problem. Hope this helps