Is it just Christmas or a sign of worse to come?

[ThePerUnaBomber]

This will be long, apologies in advance. DS (4.5) has been ratcheting up the defiant behaviour over the past 2 days. I'm not sure whether to ascribe it to being overwhelmed by Christmas (this year's build up was far far greater than last as he is now at school) or a re-manifestation of behaviour I had thought was eliminated a year or so ago.

Context: DS has been incredibly ill for the past week with a chest infection and bad asthma. He's been taking himself off to bed at 5pm. Yesterday he was very defiant (opening crackers despite being told not to, playing up at the dinner table, calling DP - not his dad - bogey brain and other names). DP has been around since DS was 2, so not a new arrival. I didn't see DS last Christmas so I don't know how he behaved but my impression is that he is indulged and allowed to behave in this way at his dad's / paternal grandparents' houses.

He was very defiant as a toddler but has come on in leaps and bounds over the past 18 months or so in terms of obedience and behaviour, especially at mealtimes. He only eats one meal a week here (gets dinner at childminders mon-fri and with his dad one weekend night) so this is a long time for him to be here with us, over a week now.

Tonight I asked him at 4pm if he wanted spicy pasta (a favourite since toddlerhood) for dinner. We cooked it together - him at his new play kitchen which is next to the cooker in the 'real' kitchen. Then we sat down in front of TV - very rare treat to eat and watch Pirates. He started moaning about it and I said he would have to leave the living room and we would eat in the dining room. He acquiesced to this and then sat there, refusing to eat. I said I would remove all toys and screens tomorrow if he continued to refuse and he trotted out the "I'm tired" line - which was totally my line as a child, so no way do I buy it. He stared defiantly at me throughout as I ate my meal and then stared more as I began to put all toys up on high shelves. I put him to bed at 515 - he went straight to sleep.

The difficulty I have is that DP is super hard on DS (despite his own kids being pretty poor in terms of behaviour and his utter, utter lack of ability to issue consequences ever - they are preteen and teen and pretty badly behaved/rude) but he insists on DS being punished for anything that seems out of line. So he's insisting I don't allow DS any toys or screens tomorrow. Even if DS apologises.

I suppose my question is whether this latest bout of bad behaviour - after 18 months or so of really good behaviour is down to a combo of Christmas, being ill and tired or a re-emergence of his previously very defiant self. Or whether I should tell DP to butt out and cut DS some slack. If DP had not been standing over me I may not have escalated the consequences but have let DS just go to bed without dinner which seems to be punishment enough. Instead he's going to spend all day tomorrow until he goes to his dad's with no toys or screens.

Sorry it's so long and thanks for reading - all input gratefully received!

Seriously agree with Chipping. If my poorly four year old didn't want to eat (no matter how keen he seemed while cooking it), my reaction would have been 'okay, straight to bed after Piratesand nothing else if you decide you're hungry later. How on earth this escalated beyomd that is a mystery to me.

I think it sounds a bit as if DP has ground you down and you're going along with what are actually unreasonable demands. He has no right to overrule you on parenting your child. It's understandable if as partners you want to discuss an approach together, and that applies to all the children you have between you. But if it's one-sided and he's just telling you what to do, fuck that. You need to stand up for your DS, not punish him because DP says so. Stand up to him and say no, and if he doesn't back down I'd be reconsidering the relationship. Do you have any DC with him?

DP is the problem isn't he really.

DS is poorly. Look after him until he is better. Deal with any behaviour after that but, for goodness sake, have the strength to ignore DP.

Yep. DP is the problem. He is, I think, jealous of DS. So he makes a big fuss about behaviour as DS lives with us 80% of the time. His DD lives with us 100% of the time and is Very Hard Work. Much of which is down to her relationship or lack of with her mother, so I let a lot of it ride. DP lets nothing go and expects choirboy levels of good behaviour from a 4 year old boy. I'm going to deal with it once DS has gone to his dad's - who is now coming to get him at 9am tomorrow, which is good.

Your dp sounds awful actually. You sound not need to pussyfoot about him like that nor should your son. It all seems really wrong.

Your son is only little. I feel sorry for him. It's Christmas and he's been unwell and is bound to be up and down a bit. He doesn't deserve to have all his toys taken away because he didn't eat some dinner. Your dp is a bully.

*should not, not sound not..obviously.

Your son will pick up on your partners attitude eventually, if he hasn't already. I suggest you have a long conversation with your partner and explain to him that you will no longer tolerate his interference.

If you cannot have that conversation then you need to ask yourself why that is.

I have no problem standing up to DP about this - it went too far. He knows how i feel regarding his expectations for my kid vs how his kids behave. Thankfully DS' dad is coming at 8am tomorrow now. So I will address all of it once his DDs are gone at 11/

Well I best confiscate my toys and take myself off to bed tonight and quiet a few nights tbh.
I will cook something, I looks and smells tasty. It is something that I have wanted.. I sit down to eat and after a few mouthfuls, I don't want anymore.

All my dc's have gone through phases of eating little. They will pick at bits and say that's it I am full. Other times they are like dustbins and never full. On the not hungry days, I simply say oh okay then. Remember there is no alternative dinner... That's it. No big drama and no punishment. Their meal goes on the side to cool and into the fridge so if they get hungry a bit later it's there. Sometimes they go back for it.

You hugely over reacted. Sorry. Punishing someone for their appetite is shit. You sit down and eat every meal, regardless of the amount of food on your plate? I doubt it. Why should he be any different?

As for your dp, I would ignore what he says tbh. I would tell him that he had the chance to parent his children, you are parenting your how you see fit.

Give the kid a break. It's the holidays. His routine is out of whack. It's been Christmas. He has been ill.. Sounds like every other 4 and half year old. Not eating every morsel on his plate. Pulling all the crackers (but then we go through at least a box a year. No biggie they all get pulled that's what they are there for).. As for sitting at a table, I have been to some houses, and after an hour I get bored an want to leave.

I would be reconsidering the relationship with the DP tbh. It's going to be a long standing battle ground between you over your DS, and your DS is going to be the one that loses. Your DP sounds like an insecure twat.

Staring and silence is a child's way of expressing their rage when they feel they cannot speak.

If I had to guess what's going on in your son's head, he is finding the regime at home totally oppressive.

Drop the talk of defiance and punishment, neither concept is appropriate for a four year old fgs. Look at the website ahaparenting.com, and buy yourself a copy of Playful Parenting as a late Christmas present. Both have brilliant ideas that will totally transform the way you see your child's behaviour.

I think both you need to think hard both about your own ideas, and your partner's place in your life. I cannot imagine getting so angry about an ill child refusing to eat.

Cross posts. Agree with teenagers that a child should be given the right to their own appetite. It's a fundamental part of their autonomy and all too often used as some odd proxy power struggle by parents.

And lastly no way in hell would I let any DP dictate punishments and parenting style, let alone one who was not the child's parent, and certainly not one who didn't parent his own DC the same way. Nip that in the bud now.

Thank you, followthestarship. This is what I needed to hear and what I will do.

Thank you rootypigs those are great ideas.

and I would just add, it is not a sign of weakness to apologise to your child. I'd tell him in the morning that you are sorry that you got so angry. Id doesn't do them any harm to realise that being an adult does not make you perfect and that even Mum makes mistakes sometimes.

Good luck, it sounds like you have a challenge ahead PerUna x

He knows how i feel regarding his expectations for my kid vs how his kids behave

I think too you are mixing up two issues here. One is his parenting of his dd and the other is your parenting of your ds and the children are paying the price of this competitive parenting.

Please don't compare the children, they are going through completely different phases and problems.

You might need to consider whether your DP is a healthy influence on your son.

Your ds sounds tired and still unwell. Plus it is Xmas and he would have been tired if he started school in September.

Poor kid.

Sounds like a really difficult situation for you and your little DS, OP. I suspect that your comment about your partner being jealous of your son are spot on. Sadly.

I can't see anything in any of your posts that suggest your DS is any more defiant or challenging that any other 4/5yo boy, tbh. (My own 5yo would have done exactly the same in the scenario you describe, he'd just dig his heels in and we'd get nowhere. And would trot out the 'tired' line. Thing is, your DS clearly WAS tired. No normal healthy 4yo should need to go to bed at 5.15 in normal circumstances).

It seems to me that your son is actually coping pretty well with a fairly unsettling home life.

You have had lots of excellent advice here and it sounds like you're taking it all on board. The one thing I'd add would be, if push came to shove, please don't prioritise your boyfriend over your son. It does sound from your posts as if the situation could escalate quite nastily if you don't make a point of standing up for your child.

Agree with others. He sounds no more challenging than my 4yo ds. Dh has a stricter approach than me but of my ds has been ill and hasn't much of an appetite, dh shows him nothing but patience, understanding and love. Neither of us force him to eat, even in normal circumstances (though admittedly dh is a little more hung up on encouraging him to eat than i am). You should never punish a child for not eating imo - their appetites wax and wane just as ours do. Your problem is your partner inflicting jealousy and impatience on your small child. He sounds charming. Your ds sounds absolutely normal, if a little tired and in need of reassurance.

Oh and just to add that i had a chest infection in February. If he feels anything like I, as an adult, felt for over a month then he has all my sympathy and it's no wonder he's in bed so early! I wish you well OP and agree that it does no harm to apologise to little ones - I have done so when I have overreacted with my ds.