5yo's behaviour making life hellish - has anyone else got one similar?

[ZuluWarrior]

5.9yo DS1 (oldest of three) has always been high maintenance. Never wanted to be left alone as a toddler. Needing constant entertainment. Screaming when left at any form of childcare.

Fast forward to now - he is in P1 (Scotland). Getting on ok with schoolwork. Teachers report he is happy at school, perhaps not the best behaved but within spectrum of normality. For me and DH however.. He's Jekyll and Hyde. Can be angelic - kind to his baby brother, holding interesting conversations about stuff, logical and reasonable.

The other 50% of the time is awful. Won't go to bed on his own. Scared of un named monsters/dreams. One of us now sits in the room til he sleeps. If he wakes up at night he won't go back to bed. Wails/cries. Wakes up the whole house. DH is up with him now having breakfast. I can hear him wailing. He has to be dragged by the wrist into school because he digs his heels in and says he's not going. All incentives are of no interest. We're doing "What to do When You Worry Too Much" with him to try and sort out the anxiety element but it's more than that. It's like he wants to control everything and have all of our attention, all of the time, with histrionics thrown in. We are exhausted. The poor wee two suffer. There's always a screamfest. Visiting children are a disaster - meltdowns about who plays with what. Going out anywhere is equally stressful.

Does anyone have a similar child? Has anything helped?

TIA

What was it about the christmas tree putting up that triggered it, do you think? Hope things have settled down and that you're nursing a large glass of wine.

They do sound very similar. I totally get what you're describing. Thanks - I'm no closer to finding a solution but you're helping me sort it all out in my head .

Our DD2 has strong elements of PDA alongside or even as part of her AS which is quite common according to Tony Attwood. She cannot earn rewards.

If you try to adapt her behaviour by offering a reward she would quite like, she decides it isn't worth the bother.

If you offer her a reward she really wants, she cannot cope with the pressure of worrying about not earning it so she sabotages the plan immediately. Recently a CAMHS practitioner tried to improve her cooperation with our morning routine and help her get to school on time by offering an activity she really wants to do. She had to be ready by a certain time every day for a week. On the first morning she was on the verge of meltdown from the moment she woke and ended up smashing the bathroom mirror and refusing to get dressed or go into school at all.

It seemed like appalling, defiant and destructive behaviour until I realised that the pressure of the reward was too stressful for her. Now rewards are small and dished out after the fact with minimal fuss. Future rewards are never mentioned so she never expects them.

That's so interesting Goldmandra (and scary). I have always wondered why rewards don't work, or sometimes make things worse. You think you're doing the right thing but it really looks like it's going to take a complete shift in thinking for this one .

Hi all just read this thread and describes my ds. The rewards thing has just made me sit here thinking oh my god. Have always thought Christ he can't even manage to do it for a reward,what is wrong with him.
Where do you go from here because my ds can be so loving and caring and getting upset if his smallest sister doesn't cuddle him.
But on the other hand the anger and melt downs are bad really bad and can go on for hours which end in my 4 year old dd being scared and my 19 month old crying where he's scared her as she hates loud noises.
Where to go from here ????

I have been thoroughly enlightened reading about the PDA stuff this week. I have lots to think about! Thanks everyone - this is the closest I think I've ever got to understanding my firstborn and hopefully it's onwards and upwards.

Angelface, I feel for you. How old is your DS? Do you want to tell us a bit more about him?

When the CAMHS psychologist told me he believed that DD1 had AS, I came home and Googled it. It felt like, as I read, someone was handing me the missing pieces of a jigsaw puzzle and suddenly all her behaviour made perfect sense.

It was a good feeling but, at the same time, it was hard news to come to terms with.

Hi Zulu. My ds is 7 he will be 8 in a few months. He can be the sweetest and so caring one minute but then the next minute we can have the biggest meltdown that will last from 1 to 2 hours.they can be caused from anything like having to pop to the shops or his jeans not feeling right or maybe someone touching his favourite teddy at the moment.
He is very controlling and tries to control everything.After the crying and screaming has stopped he will just sit on my lap and cry and say he can't stop himself.
I understand so much how you say how exhausting it all is.
Think I need to have a look and read of PDA stuff.

Hope reading about it helps Angel - let me know how you get on. We had a nightmare at bedtime yesterday. Refusal to stay. Crying, begging, death threats.. He must be exhausted.

My ds is fine at going to bed but he must then tell me a thousand times that he can't get to sleep and it's then a hit on affect with then being tired in the morning which doesn't help at all. I have also had from my son shouting at me saying he wishes he was dead. It is so upsetting sometimes once they are all asleep it's impossible to hold it all in any longer.
Zulu what is your next step how are you handling things. I have had two days now of bliss with my ds. I'm still just hoping it will pass it's just a very long phase we are going through. And I don't want to be looked upon as a bad mother.

Yes, evenings are awful. I think the fact that you're tired too just makes things so much worse. Plenty tears and despair.

I think our next step will be to do a lot of reading, and hopefully agree between DH and me a joint approach. We are a bit different in our ways of handling things but hopefully this'll be relatively easy. Then I guess we'll give it a try and see how it goes. Depending on that we may or may not seek further support. Anything has to be an improvement on how things are now.

We too have wonderful periods where you allow yourself to dream that things are improving. Then it all goes tits again.

He is very controlling and tries to control everything

This is probably a strategy for managing his anxiety.

If the wider world feels stressful and chaotic, you crave predictability and the best way to keep things predictable is to control them. The need for predictability can also be met by asking the same question repeatedly (it helps to always give the same answer), watching the same film over and over again and lining up or sorting out toys.

Although it probably feels counter intuitive, the best way to help children who are feeling like this is to hand them as much control as possible voluntarily so they have more chance of dealing with the things they can't be allowed to control.

I had an extremely frustrated tantrumy tot from about 2 yrs he was having 6 plus huge tantrums per day.he is a twin with older sibling.anything not quite right ,not prepared for or changes to routine ,he could not cope with. But again Jekyll and Hyde so no "label" bright and happy at school with occasional problems .little swine at home.
At about ten Head teach got him assessed for autism.form I filled in ... Could have ticked every box at age 8.6 but realised how much had improved .
To cut long story short I feel his emotional development eventually caught up with his chronological age and at approx 12 years and in secondary all on an even keel.not perfect and very much an individual(red haired punky 16 year old now ) but a pleasure to have around.
Just wanted to say i do not think you can always label what goes on. Trust your instincts and there is light at end of the tunnel.
Deep breaths it won't be for ever. Hugs to you

Thank you farmlass - much appreciated. And very much hoping there light at the end of the tunnel!