At my wits end with DS's behaviour.

[noseymum]

My DS is 4, almost 5. We are having so much trouble with his behaviour at the moment. Everything I ask him to do he says "no" to. When I ask him to stop doing something or not to do something, he just keeps on doing it. We have tried naughty step, timeout, saying he can't have telly/computer/other things he likes, ignoring his bad behaviour, giving him reasons to behave (i.e. "if you do this you can have such and such") and probably other things that I have forgotten, but nothing makes a difference. I end up shouting at him and it's making me feel really ill.

With regard to the naughty step or time out, what do you do if he won't even go there or stay there? I end up dragging him there and he keeps getting up. It's such a battle! He has started kicking out at me now as well.

I have been so upset this weekend and what doesn't help is when my Mum or others say we're being to hard on him etc.

What am I doing wrong?

I think success depends on having more than one strategy.

At the moment you do really have one stategy, which is request he do/not do whatever it is, then give some form of punishment, whether it be time out/withdrawal of toys or whatever.

I have found that parenting is so much more FUN and less like a battle, if I try to think creatively round things; rather than asking him to get dressed, make it a race against your dh or the clock - can he win the dressing up race???

Use reverse psychology - my ds LOVES it when I put on a pretend stern face and say "I've decided - it's NO SHOES for you today! You're not allowed!" he begs to have them on! Or if I go to put a shoe on him and sense a 'NO!' brewing, I will suddenly say "Nah!" and run off with the shoe, when of course he chases me demanding his shoe....Kids of this age are very competitive, and love being 'bet' that they can't do things - I bet my ds that he can't put all his toys in that drawer faster than I can do my drawer - if a request to help me tidy has failed, this rarely fails!

Lighten up, have some fun with him, it really can be done. Lower your expectations - yes it would be convenient if he did as he was told all the time, but this isn't realistic of human nature really.

It is also easy to get drawn into negative attention - paying him much closer, more focussed attention when he is saying no and not doing what you want! Of course this just results in him doing more of the bad stuff....

He's so young still - take the pressure of yourselves, have more fun with the everyday stuff.

oh, and BIN the naughty step, it's just an invitation to any child with a bit of spirit, to get up!

If he really has been naughty, say hitting or deliberately breaking something, then I would give him 'time out' in his room to calm down. If you have to, hold the door shut to make him have the four minutes or whatever, if you both really need a break from eachother.

Is it possible that you're expecting too much of him? I ask because I had huge problems with my dd, but when ds came along I realized that things I thought of as naughtiness or defiance in dd were just normal child behaviours. All I can suggest is ignore as much as you can and choose very carefully the battles you want to fight. Try to avoid battles at all costs( I learnt this lesson very painfully) and make sure that you can win before you start! What sort of things are you asking him to do that he refuses?

Sunnysideup, When I hold the door shut he kicks the door and tries to pull it open and gets in a terrible state and I find it really distressing. What can I do about that?

Curlew, basically everything I say he refuses to do. When I want him to get undressed he says "No" When I have finally managed to get that done and want him to get his clothes/PJ's on he says "No". When I ask him to go in the bathroom to get washed, when I ask him to tidy up, go to his room (for time out). Everything!

Could some of this be because all his routine has changed recently. He started Reception in September. Before that, on the days that I work, my Mum used to come over to look after him, get him dressed, give him breakfast and take him to nursery in the afternoons. Obviously this now doesn't happen. Also, I have changed my hours so that I can take him to school and pick him up. So basically nothing of his routine is the same.

Oh and he is also very independant and likes to do things himself. Like brush his teeth, which I do let him do mostly, but when I feel he hasn't dome it properly, I say that I want to do it and I then get him clamping his mouth shut.

you mentioned that you say he cant have such and such or you will give him such and such if he behaves. have you actually followed them through?

also have you tried reward/sticker charts, where at the end of a certain period of time if he has so many stickers/gold stars etc he gets a reward.

or you could try having a jar of litlle toy footballs or something else he is interested in. you say if you do this you can have one football and if he does it he gets the football if he doesn't a football gets taken out. then every time you feel has been particularly good/bad the footballs go in and out accordingly. at the end of say a week depending how many footballs are left he gets a reward. i know some people use pennies and whatever is left at the end they get to keep, but i'm not sure if this always works as i sometimes think any money is a reward whether small or large. maybe you could do it so he is only allowed the money if it is over a certain amount and if not the jar is emptied for the new week.

nappyaddict, We used to do sticker charts and things simliar to that, but found that after a while they had no effect. We also tried a money incentive. We said that if he had been good he could have 10p at the end of the day to save for rides or passes on Sky, which was put in a special jar. If he had not been so good he would only get 5p and if he was really bad he would not get any. If he was really really good he could earn an extra 5p. This did not seem to work, so we stopped.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding so negative about everyone's suggestions, but I really do feel like we have tried everything. :-(

I forgot to say. Yes we do follow threats through, but it just isn't working. His attitude is " well confiscate it then". He spent most of this weekend without any telly and no computer. The reason it went on so long was because he just wouldn't stop being rude to me. Once he started behaving again he was allowed to watch some telly.

p.s. I have had a better morning so far. He got washed and dressed without too much trouble. I tried to stay a bit calmer when he wasn't doing what I said.

He might be using up all his 'good' at school. I bet he is lovely to the teacher.

I think the system with 10p and 5 p is far to complecated for a 4 year old. Put something tangeble, like chocolates, in a jar. If he is naughty or rude, take one out and make him watch you put it in the bin.

Hi noseymum. I used to run a kids club and found that a lot of boys of that age were a real handful, it's like they have a real surge of energy hormones or something! Lots of really challenging exercise worked wonders with a lot of them, a goo half hour of proper running or football etc, at least once each day. I know that's hard to do, especially with the cold weather, but I'd say try really wearing him out, it might divert his ebergy from being mean to you all day! Alternatively, in complete contrast to above advice, is he tired? Maybe starting school, big change in routine etc is too much to cope with? I know everyone is different, but our HV said children in reception should be in bed at 7pm!

or GOOD half hour, even!

Try giving him the power back maybe? Dunno, but my DS says "No" to everything too - he's much younger than yours (2), but if he won't do something that needs doing, I now just walk away and refuse to argue - I know that's not always possible, but things such as getting undressed for his bath, tidying, I just walk out, make sure I don't sound at all fussed or annoyed and say he can call me when he's ready to do whatever I wanted him to do. Usually takes about a minute and then he'll yell. I think Sunnysideup's got some good points too though. Just don't play the game - try and distract or ignore it and then they get bored. So hard not to yell though .

colditz, I think he is mainly lovely to the teacher, but I understand (from him) that he has had a few 'time outs' and she has also told me that he has been fighting. On one occasion she said that he pinched someone as well. The chocolates in a jar sounds quite a good idea.

imnot27, he does still seem to have a lot of energy, even though I thought reception would tire him out. I have thought on occasions his behaviour is due to tiredness, but not sure about this. He's usually in bed by 7.30.

Smee, I do do a bit of the walking away as if not bothered. He mostly comes to say sorry after a few minutes, but it's not meant, beacuse as soon as we start getting on with whatever it is, he starts playing up again.

Does your DS eat well at school? My DS doesn't, so I have to feed him really early otherwise he really is in a foul mood when he gets home. Also, when your DS gets home from school, try to give him your full attention for a while - sit down with him, ask him lots of questions about his day, give him lots of cuddles. It sounds like he may be attention seeking. When he does play up, try to keep calm (I know it's difficult) and just walk away and ignore him if you need to. If you smile and have fun with him, and make sure he's not bored, then maybe he will improve - I hope. Good luck

and, I have also found like imnot27, a good run around in the garden to burn off a bit of energy works wonders too!! I don't think they wear them out enough at school.

I found that the having to do what you are told all day led to as someone else said "all the goodness being used up".
It drove me mad, but we intituted a strict sticker chart for the very important things like getting dressed, coat and shoes on etc in the morning, and whatever I felt most important in the evening.

I also found DS didn't drink enough at school and the best thing to do was to give him a drink and snack as soon as we got back and then throw him in the garden to let off steam,- or play soemthing like musical statues followed by something calmer before an early dinner.

We also banned TV,computers and playdates until the sticker chart improved - so no treats as a result of the sticker chart - just earning normal things in the house. or removing them for bad behaviour.

It took a couple of weeks, but once he realised we meant business things calmed down.
It is a huge change to routine and he is just pushing the boundaries - AGAIN they just need to know they are the same as they were before.

Good luck

noseymum, in answer to your question, what you can do about it when he kicks the door and gets distressed is basically decide whether you are doing time out or not.

I feel if you are keeping the door shut then of course he will kick out at it etc, and get distressed or angry. You may well find this distressing but the thing is as a parent you simply need to decide if this method will help your ds - if the answer is yes, then you I'm afraid just have to deal with your own upset....It's no good doing ANYTHING half heartedly as he will sense this - whatever you decide to do, do it wholeheartedly and do not be led by his repsonse.

Having said all that, I've used time out less than ten times in my ds' life (he's four) and I hated to hear him crying but used it when we honestly needed a break from eachother, and/or when being around me was what was feeding his anger or behaviour.

I do think that though you say you've tried nearly all these suggestions and they don't work, it's possible that you haven't given it long enough. Consistency really does pay off with kids in the end. Things may not pay off straight away but if you keep to whatever sanction you decide, your ds will sense that you mean business and are not actually going to 'bin' this method just because of his behaviour....

I mainly think that it would be great to accept that he has had as you say, a major change in his routine and started reception....I'm sure his behaviour will settle a bit when he's adjusted a bit.

noseymum, one thing that I have noticed from your post is that you talk about how independant your ds is (which is GREAT) but how often you have to redo what heis doing (which isn't).
I think you should let him do what he wants to do by himself and do NOT intervene or say anything negative (like Oh no, you should brush your teeth like this) but encourage him that he can do it on his own. Then, either you think there is real problem and improve thing AFTER (I mean perhaps 1/2 hour after he tried by himself) or if he obvioulsy struggled propose him your help (but don't impose). If you try to 'help' or correct, he will see it as a reproach and will fight against it. It's not good for his self esteem either.
The same for getting undressed and then dressed,just leave the room and let him getting on with it! If it is taking really too long, what about a timer? (eg if you are not undressed when the timer rings, you won't take a bath and you will go to bed directly). I think he is old enough to be able to make the relation between his acts and the 'natural' consequences so just let them happened. Don't protect him. It will save YOU some stress, shouting etc.. and you won't be THE ONE to punish him again.(eg doesn't want to put a jumper on in the middle of winter. Let him go out without it, and let him EXPERIENCE the cold. If does bother you,take one with you but don't propose it until he asks for it )

Oh, unlike Sunnysideup, I think that a lot of these techniques like time out, rewards chart etc. are not always very easy to implement AND it is very easy not to understand them correctly (even with the very best intentions).
Try to know more about them and check that you are not making a mistake along the line. I have been surprised when I looked into time out what it actually meant and how to implement it to acheive some success with it.

amaretto, I don't actually use rewards or reward charts myself at all! My post of 11.46pm yesterday describes my approach which is pretty much the exact opposite of reward charts!

and my post earlier explains that I have used time out a tiny handful of times in my son's life, as a way of defusing an angry and impossible situation with a toddler who is beside himself and irrational.

oooh, the injustice of being misunderstood

Sorry, Sunnysideup. I didn't say anything about reward cahrts, time out etc.. and if they are suitable or not just that it's very easy to think you are using a technique well (and therefore should work) whereas you are actually making a mistake somewhere (and then it doesn't work).
Therefore my comment about learning more about a technique before using it as then you won't be disappointed

Thanks everyone for all your comments. I have taken on board what you have all said and I will discuss with my DH what we feel we need to do/improve on. I really appreciate you all giving me your time. You've made me feel a lot better.

Forgot to answer chickibud's question.

DS has a packed lunch. So far he has been eating it all. I usually give him a snack when he gets in, to tide him over until tea time.