Tantrums from obsessive 7yr old - HELP!!!!!!

[mamalocco]

I know it's late guys but am at the end of another stressed out w/end thanks to said dd. I expected (and got) the terrible twos - but she'll still having tantrums and I am at a loss what to do. She'll obsess about the smallest details. Yesterday she screamed for 1.5hrs because there was a tiny spot on the tshirt she wanted to wear. Today, the screaming hab-dabs were because her hair wasn't right after swimming. Have tried screaming, crying, reasoning, threatening, bribing, ignoring (hard when we need to get out for school. DH wants to send her for therapy - but don't want to go through school (model pupil BTW - popular and smart) or through GP. Am starting to loss the will here. Any advice?

Similar situation with my 6 yr old, v bright, lovely at school/friends/relations etc. but will easily flip into fury at home. I take some comfort from fact that out of home she is perfect... The old favourite of tick chart on fridge and penny jar have helped a bit, but i do find it hard to put x on chart because this makes her cross...

phew! she sounds hard work! Where were you when she had the 1.5 hours scream re the t-shirt? Do you think she gets any attention that may be elongating the length of time she screams for?

Does she get any control over any aspect of her life? Could she be trying to control these things because it's her only way of controlling anything?

For example, you (as a good and caring mum!) are trying to get her to stop crying, get her hair done and leave in time for school - is it time to let her deal with the consequences a bit? Make it clear that she needs to do this or that by five mins time or she will be going to school without her shoes on/hair done or whatever - she's old enough to be embarrassed at the thought of explaining to the teacher that she isn't dressed properly because she was having a tantrum, I would think!

Just thoughts! I do remember at this age though, feeling just 'not comfortable in my own skin' iykwim; my polo neck jumpers were UNBEARABLE, itchy labels were like KNIVES digging into me, even my limbs felt the wrong shape and size - do you know what I mean with this or was I just a certifiable child? I just wonder if other kids feel this kind of general irritation that I used to - however it passed, it was a phase. Unless you feel she has experienced things that lead to this behaviour or that life is v tough for her for some reason then I would personally doubt she needs a counsellor myself.

Thanks for this - I know what you mean about the x on the chart. Her one and only time in trouble at school was in reception and she was put on the 'sad cloud' - this resulted in a major hissy fit. It took two teachers over two hours to calm her down and they said they were on the verge of calling me in because they didn't know what to do!!

In answer to SSU - I was downstairs trying to maintain some sense of normality for DS 4 and DD2 - 1.5. Am concerned about their reactions. Both go very quiet - although DS has become quite agressive lately towards me (he gets upset if his sister gets told off) - but this could be due to his starting reception last month and the Power Ranger effect.

I also remember feeling some of the frustration I think DD1 feels when I was a child - but don't know what to do with her. If we are at home and don't need to be anywhere - fine I can put her in her room and let the storm blow over. If we're out; in the car (major tantrum recently over car seat - stuck in traffic - late for ferry - she was standing on her seat, kicking the back of my seat and hitting my head for 45mins!) - then I'm at a loss.

You might be on to something with the control thing although she finds it hard to make a decision - for fear of making the wrong one I think. Bit of a perfectionist!

And finally - no she has led a charmed life with no traumas - lets hope it's a phase that passes before I crack!!

wow, the car tantrum sounds MAJOR - thought my ds was a pro as regards tantrums but she really does sound like she could do it in the olympics [weak grin emoticon]

I'm sorry, I would feel at a loss really too about how you deal with a child who does this. All I can say is that when I look back on my childhood, if I got even mildly 'bratty' when my dad was around, and if I caight him at the end of a long day, then he on one or two occasions shouted at me so scarily that my goodness did I calm down quick

Am not seriously advising you or DH to scare the living daylights out of her! But there is something here maybe about her being the strongest one in the situation, no-one being able to impose their will on her because she is the powerful one. Do you feel nervous of these tantrums happening? I wouldn't be surprised if you did.

We have had limited success with a codeword/signal that is our secret and that i would use as she was starting to get cross. Also some success with hobbies that make her physically tired, she is lovely when a bit tired. Have also tried distracting her by me running up and down on the spot waving my arms in effort to encourage her to do same when on brink of getting cross. This can use up some of the surplus energy....(We did have a small trampoline which was good).
Has your daughter any idea of how horrible it looks/sounds to the rest of the family when she is angry and how very far away from being grown up it is?

i wholeheartedly agre with sunnysideup in letting her face the consequences.
Ie, if you're getting ready for school and she decides to have a tantrum over her hair just stay very calm and tel her that you're going whether she is ready or not. Let her see that even if she throws a massive tantrum it doesn't affect what you do.

I also agree with trying to give her more control over things. And try and let her see that if something isn't "right" she (or both of you) can fix it without having to have a tantrum over it

Am interested in the code word thing - how does it work for you? Yes she has seen what it looks like when she kicks off - I video'd her. The threat of showing it to her teacher was enough to bring her out of an 'episode' a couple of times - although I tried it recently and she grabbed the camera and threw it to the ground (insurance claim going through as we speak!!).

I have taken her to school without her hair being done to her satisfaction (!) and the head teacher has had to peel her off me screaming (DD screaming, not the headteacher - although maybe after the bell had rung!!). Have to say though since then she manages to sort herself out before we leave the house in the morning. She has also suffered the consequences of her tantrums in missing outings - trips to the cinema/parties/swimming etc. she knows we're not bluffing when we issue threats. It's as if she has got herself so wound up that nothing can get through.

I think alot of it is to do with attention seeking (deeply jealous of DS and DD1) - I just need to find that 25th hour in the day - but don't we all?!

Oh dear mammaloco. You could have been describing my DS1 a few years ago.
I haven't had time to read the whole thread so sorry if repeating...
I used to DREAD Christmas,parties,days out for all the reasons you have stated. I spent Christmas day when he was about 5 in the bedroom crying. He couldn't deal with intricate toys not being "just so"
Holidays were a joy. Sand in shoe tantrums occupied a whole month in France once.
He saw Consultant Paediatrician (sp) in the vague hope of some sort of diagnosis-we were all thinking Aspergers-but basically he was just too darn clever!! That was the official line on it. His brain was way ahead of his fine motor skills and he couldn't cope with the frustration.
I used to sit crying wishing for a child of average intelligence. He didn't sleep through the night till he was nearly 3-was your DD a bad sleeper??
Anyway.....he is now nearly 10 and..........a DREAMBOAT!!!
I promise you, she will grow out of it.
Hopefully you will wake up one morning and realise she hasn't had a tantrum for a couple of days and then they'll get less and less frequent. Once her body catches up with her brain all this anger and frustration should die down.

Sorry if I banged on a bit there but HTH. Stay calm!!

Thanks for this - sometimes you just need a 'light at the end of the tunnel' talking to. She has been really nice today and we've even joked about her tantrums! Deep down, I don't believe there is anything really wrong with her, hence my resisting DH's suggestion of therapy. It's just me coping with the day to day practicalities of her behaviour (until she grows out of it ). Sunnysideup is right - sometimes I feel as though I just waiting for her to kick off and don't handle it as calmly as I should. One quick question - when she makes (what I believe to be) unreasonable requests e.g. ironing her shirt again because she doesn't believe I've done it, should I just accommodate her to keep the peace. Sometimes even if I offer her a way out she doesn't want me to - its as though she needs something to be amiss to warrant her feelings.

TBH mamalocco when they are on the verge or full on,I think you could offer to fly to the moon and it will not be good enough.
I tried everything in my powers to see him off at the path but once the red mist comes down it has to blow.
Someone suggested a punch bag for DS1 once and I think thats a good idea. It's almost a physical thing and if they can get the energy out in that way they may calm down quicker.

So in answer to your question-don't re-iron the shirt because it still won't be right. Try.try and try again to distract her or (v v hard) ignore her. And-if I lost my rag (which more often than not I did) and shouted it was just like pouring petrol on the flames. He still hates being shouted at.
Funnily enough my DS2 used to go very quiet when his brother kicked off.

mamalocco i definitely wouldn't re-do things just because she refuses to believe you!

I think you are doing all the right things tbh. ignoring it at home, not going back when you say she'll miss out on things etc etc

Perhaps the key issue here as you say is attention. I honestly know how difficult it is but could you try and just sit down with her for 5 minutes a day and do something, even if it's just talking about her day or doing some reading or something?
Maybe you could try a star chart as well and if she goes a week without a tantrum then you could do something at the weekend just the 2 of you?

I think re-inforcing and rewarding good behaviour may give better results than punishing bad iyswim?

code word - we would agree a word (made up or real) that i would say to her when i could see she was getting cross, and she would squeeze my hand, and (if in the mood) try to stop getting cross. if she maanged to stop the crossness, she would get tick on chart.

interesting about the video, my little girl fast fowards through any unpleasing images of herself...

spook's punchbag idea may well be a very good one....

Will get the punchbag - if only for me (have bruised my hand more than once hitting the wall rather that smacking her!!).

Am trying to spend individual time with her. Each night she gets at least 30 mins after DD2 and DS are in bed - tonight it was 2 hrs because I fell asleep on her bed! My time is my only bargaining tool. She couldn't give a stuff about any of her possessions.

Thanks for all this everyone.