OKay I'm finally asking for some advice with my ds..

[essbee]

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You should get the books today or tomorrow SB - hope that they will have something helpful in!!

Twinkie, no-one is suggesting for a moment that she tells her ds to destroy something every time he feels angry - that's just ridiculous!

But if that is how he deals with anger I think maybe it could be a problem that he does!!

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one Spacemonkey - I really don't agree with any type of physical outlet that is so violent as destroying something and think that anger should be chanelled in different ways!!

I will say no more!!

My ds is 10 and he has a lot of aggressive energy. He finds it extremely difficult to deal with frustration and often goes into one of his moods which manifest as shaking with frustration and anger, throwing things (toys or shoes in his room for instance). I do find it difficult to deal with him when he gets like this.

He channels his aggressive energy by playing lots of football and wrestling with his "wrestling bears" (large teddy bears that he uses to practice his wrestling moves on). I also find that talking to him in a certain way which reflects and acknowledges his feelings can be effective, particularly when we are in a situation when he can't (and twinkie - he KNOWS he can't!) punch a pillow or whatever.

For instance, I'll see him getting into one of this moods (face like thunder) and I'll say "wow you look really angry", and he'll say something like "grrr yes i AM really angry", and i'll say "it's REALLY frustrating when you can't have something you really want isn't it" (if he's gone into one about me saying no about buying him a game in town for instance), and he says "YES it's REALLY frustrating", and we go on and on like this, sometimes for half an hour, but eventually he does calm down WITHOUT being told off or made to feel his feelings are wrong.

He KNOWS it is wrong to destroy things, and he KNOWS it is wrong to hurt people, and because he knows that he doesn't take his anger out in destructive ways. He also knows it's ok to punch a pillow in his bedroom if that makes him feel better. I credit him with enough intelligence to understand the difference.

But your DS is 10 - SBs is only just 6 and I think he may not be able to control himself to the extent that your DS does!!

Agree to disagree eh!! End of for me.

Yes, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

You're right, ds is 4 years older than essbee's ds and I agree with you in that if a child is too young to understand the difference then encouraging them to be physically destructive wouldn't be right (would be totally wrong with an under 5 I would think).

As I said below, I think if I was essbee I would go to my GP about counselling for him. He's been through a lot, and I reckon a spell of specialist counselling would help put him on the right track in dealing with his feelings.

( i'm off to kick a wall now )

Don't want to get into any debate over the anger chanllenging bit as not sure on my thoughts on it right now. DD too young at this stage. But wanted to just ask you something spacemonkey - if you don't mind. Do you and your DS have ways of dealing with anger in other situations, such as at school? Sounds like you do really well with it at home and just wondered how it works outside the home/when you are not there, etc.

BTW - I have read your book now but can't remeber your e-mail/adress to get it back to you. Can you e-mail me on claireandrich(at)beeb(dot)net and I will do so asap? Thanks

ds doesn't have any problems at school - like a lot of kids, he's a different child at school to the one he is at home! I am always amazed when I go to his parent evenings and get told he is a lovely, helpful, hardworking boy. He also has good manners with everyone but me. Grrrr. Still, I'd rather he saved his bad behaviour for home than at school or elsewhere.

But as twinkie rightly points out, he is 10 so he's old enough to exert some control over himself. If it's any consolation, I was crap at dealing with his angry moods when he was younger and often used to shout at him and send him to his room to simmer for hours. It's only recently that I've started finding a way to get through to him, and that's purely by working on improving my own communication skills with him.

Did you enjoy the book? I haven't read Adrian Mole yet! Do you mind if I hang onto it for a bit longer?

Thanks Spacemonkey. I was just interested - thought you might be able to give me some tips for the classroom I agree with you though _ I do so hope DD is good at school/out, then not worried so much if just at home!

No worries about the book - keep it as long as you wish. I enjoyed your book yes. Found it really interesting. Thank you.

How structured do you think your day is with him. can he predict what sort of thing you are doiing at a certain time?

Esbee, I've had some terrible problems with DS (4.5) during and since the break up with his father.
Mine has a terrible time controlling his destructiveness. He always knows when he has done something wrong and is desperately apologetic afterwards. I wonder if it is because he has seen his father lose his temper so many times or whether it is just general frustration at a time when things in his life are out of control.
I don't really know what to advise. I have been very lucky in that a health visitor with a specialism in behavioural issues has given me some very helpful tips etc.
Big hugs though.

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I would impose an after schol routine (ie bath at x oclock) and perhaps spend more time at home - why should h go out if he is naughty? alos review bedtimes?

after ds3's birth they just wanted to be at home for weeks(much to my annoyance) and I thik it relaxes them a lot and lets them just veg out.

essbee, I read this thread earlier today at work, but can't post there. I haven't any lightening flashes of inspiration but your descriptions reminded me of my oldest son at this age. Although he wasn't particularly destructive, he was very defiant with me. I was under stress because my mum suddenly became ill when my oldest was five and a bit and died a few months before his sixth birthday. I did find it really tough going with my son, even when I was coping well on the surface and had passed the bursting into tears all the time stage.

I think the changes in the family destabilised us all. Counselling might have helped us, but in the end we just needed time to settle again. It took well over a year. And my son got more interests in his life around the age of 7 - as his reading ability improved. So going on my experience, this phase with your son might be something you just have to wait out, while keeping firm about your boundaries and giving him lots of love and attention, as I see you are doing. Don't automatically think you are doing something wrong or that your son must have some overriding problem. Hope that makes some sense, somewhere.

Sorry to hear your son has been bullied and hope your school do get on top of this when term begins.

Essbee, does he get lots of physical exercise? Just wondering whether this might help too, run off some of the energy and testosterone.

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Hi there, I saw this last night & remembered what my youngest brother was like at that age, it was definitely in 1st few yrs at school so prob same, other brother & I were never in trouble, youngest constantly for a while, threw someones coat in mud, smashed bottles in a road, cut up my favourite Twinkle annual (still v annoyed by this, parents got me Rupert bear instead but not the same).
Anyway, just thinking it might be a bit of an age thing, can't think that anything in particular made my brother like this & he's ended up ok.
Not a lot of help except to say maybe don't worry too much... much easier said when it's someone else child of course...

essbee, we've got this book, I Feel Angry which is very simple but quite good I think. I'm happy to send it to you if you like. (I'm NOT saying my ds is perfect btw! but he's 6.5 now and I bought this when he was younger and very difficult). Let me know if you want it.

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Hi Essbee, hope your ds's birthday room went as planned this morning and he got a lovely suprise! I only read this thread this morning so didn't realise last night things were so hard for you at the moment. Its a good job you've got all these MN friends to give you good advice and support.

essbee, email me your address and I'll post it - you can use wickedwaterwitchy at hotmail dot com if you want me to get your message today - it may take longer through contact another talker as it's the weekend. Unless you've still got my other email in which case do feel free to use that!

Sorry essbee, missed this. Just wanted to add my two penn'orth. I think coming up to 6 is a very difficult age for boys anyway, they do a lot of changing, and re-assessing their place in their universe. I've posted here before about my problems with ds1 - how I feel he is growing away from me, resenting me etc., and my ds hasn't gone throught the trauma and upheaval that yours has.

Ds1 has changed so much over the last year - I sometimes get flashes of my sweet little boy so I know he's still in there somewhere but he can be moody, aggressive, destructive, sulky, sullen and downright unpleasant much of the time. He also seems to have more time for his Dad than for me right now. I read Steve Biddulph's book "Raising Boys" and, while I thought a lot of it was pants, one thing he said rang a lot of bells. He says that boys are their Mum's til they are 7, their Dad's 'til they are around 11/12 and then their world is dominated by peer pressure 'til adulthood (when presumably they find their own way )

Perhaps your ds has mixed feelings about his dad going - despite his assurances that he is glad he's gone. Perhaps he is feeling he needs a father figure - though your ah isn't the one he needs. Does that make any sense? This isn't an instruction to rush into finding a replacement btw

You are doing the best you can - I don't think there is a quick fix. You need to keep the channels of commununication open, keep hugging (when you are allowed!) and I agree with a lot of what monkey has said re: acknowledging that it's OK to feel angry and full of rage. Boys are very testosterone driven - they have a lot of energy which they need to channel somehow. Could he do some kind of self-defence type thing: judo or karate? I've been thinking of something like this for ds1: I think it's a really good oulet for all that energy and a great boost for self-confidence.

He is still your little boy though, I really do think he is testing the boundaries and finding out where he stands in the new scheme of things, and I think they all do it - but you've had a lot happen over the last year or so to make the transition even harder.

I also think the bullying is bound to have a bearing - if he feels powerless at school, he may be inclined to exert power himself at home, wher he knows he is on safe ground. Definitely go back into school after Easter and insist they pull their collective fingers out!! Ds1 is quite matter-of-fact about the bullying (mild, more of a teasing kind of nature thankfully) that goes on at his school - his attitude seems to be "well, that's life, and it's OK, I can cope." But our kids shouldn't have to cope with anything worse than that.

HTH a bit xx

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