Dd (4) being nasty in playground. Please help!

[bigjimsdiamondmine]

I have noticed on school drop offs and pick ups that dd (4) is being nasty and rude to other kids in the playground. Its stuff like refusing to speak to certain kids when they try to talk to her or play with her, then announcing loudly "im only playing with my friend X". She crosses her arms and screws up her face rudely when others try to offer her toys or say "hi".

If it was just once id assume that she was having an off day, but its becoming a bit of a pattern :(. These other kids are being so nice to her and trying to be her friend and shes just being nasty to them.

One girl in particular has made her things specially that shes brought home in her book bag but dd says to me "I dont want to play with her, i only want to play with X", and "that kid was tying to play with me and X but we didnt want her too " :(. Its heartbreaking to watch, i just want to shake some sense into her (metaphorically) and tell her to cheer the hell up!

So far I've tried saying "if you're not playing with everyone then you can sit here with me and not play with anyone", encouraging her to speak and be nice (to which she just shakes her head), and putting sanctions on TV time and treats etc, but nothing seems to be getting through! Its hard because i dont know what goes on when Im not around but when i am there its quite bad and Im embarrassed in front of the other mums that she's so rude. I dont know where she gets it from, i hate bullying, and in school I would most likely be the one left out so i know how shit it is even at such a young age.

she never used to be like this at nursery, she always had one special friend but wasnt nasty to the others! I know to a certain extent you cant engineer friendships and just have to let them get on with it but its so hard to watch. I want to nip this in the bud now 1) because its probably making the other kids feel like shit, and 2) because she wont have any friends soon enough if she carries on. Also (and this might be a bit melodramatic) but i dont want her to think she can get away with it and esculate into a full on bully. Please help me , how can i stop this behaviour! Thanks.

Bit of background; DD is an only child and we've probably been a bit pfb with her so we've probably contributed heavily to her thinking she can rule the roost. Am willing to try new things to stop this now though.

Maybe you're making it worse by trying to force her to play with everyone and not letting her play with her friend unless she does.

Concentrate on being polite - I always tell my kids they must be polite and kind, and in public places they can't leave just one child out of a group, but of course they are allowed to play with just one friend and you can't force people to play with you (works both ways of course).

Scale down from "if you don't play with everyone you may not play at all" to politeness and kind words. You are probably projecting a bit if you remember being left out, but you are saying your child's wishes have no value and she must always put others first if you say she must always sacrifice a 1:1 game she and her friend are enjoying and include all comers.

I would have a quiet word with the teacher who can have a circle time about playing nicely and not excluding others. They all either dish this out or are on the receiving end at some point as they are learning how to interact socially. I really wouldn't worry. The teacher and playground staff will know if it is an issue during the school day.

Hmm, i will try that new approach, your right it doesnt sit comfortably with me, i hate the thought of her leaving people out, but i suppose i could scale back on her having to include everyone.

Telling her she cant play with anyone if she doesnt play with everyone was almost a last resort to having asked her several time to just say hello, uncross her arms etc. Its like the moment she gets in if she sees the kids she doesnt like she automatically goes into rude mode and just wont acknowledge them. Ill try a different tack next time and say "you can play with just X when she gets here but at least say hi or thank-you to the others".

Basically its embarrasing in front of the other parents, they are seeing their kids being shunned and i guess its going to make them think not to invite her to parties, round for tea etc.

Do you think I should just ignore it then? Its going to be hard, but id do that if i thought it would work. Trouble is i feel like maybe we've got to this point by me ignoring things, putting it down to she's having a bad day etc.

I've got a thread running about my nightmare child who's 4 and just started reception and is struggling.

There seems to be a huge amount of he's my friend, he's not my friend, no one wants to play with me. Jonny already had friends, you can't be friends with her etc going on.

It must be very hard for them to work through it all and I'm sure at 4 it's not malicious, she probably doesn't realise she could be hurting the other kids feelings.

I'm at an absolute loss with it all but I'm sure someone wise will come along soon!

Got a parents evening coming up soon SW so i will mention it then, not as a big deal, just "how is she getting on with the other kids?, Ive noticed shes a bit aloof". It probably isnt a big deal in the grand plan but its just so awkward standing there watching her do it! Especially this one little girl who makes a real effort with her, making her stuff etc.

Thanks Jammygeorge, it is actually reassuring to know that shes isnt the only one who can be nightmare for this. You start to think it is when all the other kids are running up offering toys etc and shes sat there with a scowl like queen bee .

The general opinion seems to be that i should step back, and i did wonder if that was the case a bit, i might try getting there late so i dont have to witness it all though!

I would probably be more upfront with the teacher about the issue. That way she can help. Some children do get fixated on only having one friend to the exclusion of others but that leaves them in quite isolated when that friend is ill or if they fall out or generally in a group situation.

Sounds cheesy but could you do some dolly role play or read some books to help her understand that she is isolating herself. Can you naturally talk about all your different friends and say what you like about each person. Can you lead by example.

I think other parents will be OK about her behaviour as long as you are making the right noises to try and resolve situations as they arise. So when she snubs someone, gently ask your DD 'what would be the nice/kind thing to do/say?' 'How do you think X you made X feel when you said xxx?' Getting her to reflect is important.

Also i expect being standoffish is her way of coping with so many new stimulating situations. Theres so much for them to take in and many are exhausted

you're right about her being over stimulated I think figgieroll. I think, thinking about it it is a coping mechanism, its quite quiet at home and she isn't really used to lots of children and noise. She probably crosses her arms to shut herself off and just feels comfortable with one on one friendships.

I'm not a particularly sociable person myself so its hard to lead by example but I am trying, I certainly don't have one best friend but she only occasionally sees me with my friends.

I think these replies have encouraged me to go easier on her, and reassured me that they are all capable of nastiness, it doesn't mean she'll turn into a monster.

At school I feel compelled to deal with it harshly because I guess I feel other mums watching and judging her behavior so pressure is on to not ignore it.

I'll try to step back and encourage -not force her-to be nicer. I'll also mention it to the teacher at parents evening, and keep on with role play and friendship books.

It is awful when they play up in front of other parents but if it was me watching that I wouldn't think she was nasty or judge, she's only 4!

It's very hard though I just want DS to be happy and I also don't want him labelled as a thug (hitting is our problem).

I think most parents could put themselves in your position and have some empathy especially if you are pulling her up on it.

Thanks jammy, i hope so. Im sure this will sort itself out and become a distant memory once they get more settled, hopefully for your son too, as they are both in early days of school.

I think i panicked earlier and didnt deal with it well, im worried that other children go home and tell their parents bigjims dd was nasty to me again or something along those lines. Ive heard a little boy telling their teacher that she was ignoring him .

Its something i cant get my head around because i am polite to the point of ridiculousness, so i over compensate talking to the other kids for her . Maybe my mum was too hard on me about being kind to others and ive turned into a total doormat. Its so hard to get it right isnt it?

It's a minefield, one that I've no real idea how to negotiate.

One little boy walked past us at pick up and said to his dad 'there's littlejammy he runs round the playground hitting people' I wanted the ground to swallow me up.

oh jammy that must be so hard to hear. I'm sure with all the support you're giving him and being willing to acknowledge it as a problem he'll grow out of it and it will get easier. Particularly if you have the help of the school in managing it without judging you.

I know how you feel though, you feel like it must be your fault some how and they'll carry on alienating themselves. We got to remember how young they are, and schools such a big change.

As I think a previous poster said, I try and turn it round for my slightly unempathetic (is that a word?) DS. I say how would he feel if someone did x, y and z to him. Quite often this will get through to him when other approaches won't.

As a lighthearted aside, your username made me smile. Great song. Was beginning to wonder if I was the only fan on here.

I hope your DD settles in and things calm down for her and you.

thanks Latin, i think I've used that in the past for things and its worked well,so I'll have to sit down with her and explain again. Its hard because she's so tired at the moment from school, she's ratty with me (which is unusual for her) so she's bound to be ratty with the other kids too

I know not a bad user name I thought (nc a few times on here because of posting things which may have outed me) I'm a massive fan, seen him once!

and the user name is after my favorite song of his!

It's such a good song, very cinematic. (Is that a bit wanky?!) I've seen him just once too, back in 2000 or 2001 (Sheffield). Would love to see him in a small smoky venue but it's never gonna happen.

Sorry to derail, as you were ...

Fwiw this isn't an "only" problem. Dd (my 4th) was like this. Probably because she was over indulged by the older dc tbf but she got a healthy dose of "be fair/play nice" from a young age.

She was a caring, sharing person at heart but needed to feel in control. As time has gone on it has emerged that she's not really outgoing she's shy but covers it with outgoing iyswim? (She's 10 now)

We went with lots of low level "och that wasn't nice, hope x wasn't upset" and "it's ok not to want to play if you tell them nicely". This was mirrored in the classroom as we sat down and explained our thoughts and our approach. It took until well into year 1 but it did work. I don't think punishing (unless outright rude/badly behaved) works. They need to work through how they feel and how to handle it rather than stifle it because a grown up "says so".

Dd is kind, caring and sensitive. She had to learn how to apply those qualities alongside her tendency to control.

Sorry no advice for this particular problem, but a bit of your thread reminds me of me and my dd, in that she had completely different attitudes to friendships to mine and I could not understand them. Her friends would come looking for her after school and she would send them away because she didn't feel like going out. I could not for the life of me understand that. But the fact is, our children come with their personalities and we should try to cultivate the best of those personalities, but it is harder when they are so different from us.

Talk to the teacher & get some help from school. It is likely that other parents will start coming in to talk about your dd. Get in & make it easier for the school to work with you on this. Btw I think you soundlike a great parent.

thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I hadn't checked this for a while as I wasn't expecting anymore replies, but everything you've said is very helpful and I'll try to take it on board with dd.

She has been better recently, but it comes and goes in phases. I've taken the approach now that its OK to play by herself, with one friend etc, as long as she is polite to everyone. That seems to be working. Its mainly when she's tired that she comes out with"I want to play by myself, leave me alone" type stuff. Her teacher is great and has fully taken it on board, she has reassured me as well that as long as we keep encouraging her to socialize, but not force, it shouldn't become a bigger issue. Thanks for all the advice.

I wouldn't tell her off for her behaviour as at her age she will only apply that momentarily to the situation.
I would discuss basic feelings. How would you feel? How would mummy feel? How would another girl feel?
Do unrelated subjects and related ones. Do nice things and bad things.
Eg if I gave you a sweet how would you feel?
If a girl wouldn't play with you how would you feel? Etc
Make cards up and turn it into a game.
Google pictures of different senarios eg. Girl pushing another girl. Girls playing together. Ask her what is happening. How they feel.
As this progresses ask about good and bad. Is it good to help someone if they fall over. Etc
Lots and lots of different senarios. Not just the ones you are worried about. This is all about modelling behaviour.
I hope that helps a little.

Thanks hey-ho, it really does.
I can see now we were wrong to be firm/harsh with her about it. we've since taken a more gentle approach and its working much better. I will try out the advice you've given, making it into a sort of game, and as you said, start off on unrelated scenarios. Its the sort of thing my dd enjoys doing, she's got a great imagination. In fact I think a lot of it is just that, she's quite a daydreamer, teacher says she'd happily spend all day making up games by herself, which is great/fine, as long as she is polite, and certainly not nasty (which was what is was beginning to look like!).