3 1/2 and soooo Disobedient!!!!

[hilz]

My 3 1/2 ds is driving me crazy, he just will not do a thing he is told without being asked again and agian, threatened etc. I feel like I spend most of the day shouting just to get him to do basic stuff. I have tried a star chart, rewarding good behaviour, like him actually doing as he is asked the first time!! But 1) he hardly got any stars and 2) he started manipulating me...every time he was asked to do something it was...will i get a star for it, if i do? so i have given up on that. It is a constant battle of wills, is he an incredibly strong-willed child, or normal? I feel sad because he is generally a lovely and very bright boy, but he has decided to just be as difficult as possible now and it means we have less and less stress free quality time to really enjoy each others company. I don't want to spend my life shouting and telling off. Help!!!

What is it you want him to do hilz?
I'd love my 3 1/2 year old to be able to argue with me, he can talk well but doesn't have good understanding.
My other son was v bright and I found ignoring the small stuff best for him.

Agree, ignore as much as you possibly can - really pick your battles. What sort of things do you want him to do? Distracting, making things a game and praising all work well. I actually think it is quite unusual - even odd - to have a toddler who does everything he is asked first time.

Snap but is 3yr 4mth DD whose latest is to stop calling me mummy and call me by my first name - keep thinking it's just a phase - establishing independence etc. but need reassurance. We are trying to only insist when life or death situation like crossing road

hilz, my latest trick for dd is to make her think i want something else and that she's getting off lightly!
Example- she HATES having her hair brushed or tied back, so i'll say, "come here and i'l put your bunches in.o.k,o.k, i'll just brush it"

or, i'll say "Tidy the room, o.k, just the toy box then and i'll do the rest"

D'ya know what i mean??
If it's the little things he's not doing that are getting to you then have a go! It's amazing how quick my dd is to help when she thinks she's not!!

Snap! Another threenager here!
I like your trick Angeliz, will have to try it!
A trick that works well with my dd is to say: "don't do that, I'll do it", to which her immediate response is "no, me, I'll do it". An alternative is "me first" to which she replies automatically "no, ME first". HTH

Roflmao at all this reverse psychology. I do it too though

Will try a bit of the reverse pychology. Maybe I am just expecting too much? It really is the little things...but its all of them. From calling to come to eat, to tidying up, to holding hands by the road, being told to 'come here', running off when dressing (altho is starting to get himself dressed a lot more now) it just seems like some days he creates a battle out of everything. Most of the time I just calmly repeat the request, you knoe, please come here now, its time to come here now, come on its time to go, please come here, please...arrrrrrrr!!!!!!!! You get the picture. He has a really severe case of selective deafness! (had his hearing checked-perfect hearing)

Re your comment juniper...he does have a rather good understanding and very extensive vocabulary which is a blessing and a curse. I can have wonderful extended conversations about all sorts of fascinating things he asks questions about...but at the same time he is incredibly good at trying to argue his way out of things too. If I have asked him to do something he will literally try to 'logic' his way out. ie give me 5 good reasons as to why he shouldn't and my request is unreasonable. It is enough to make you scream, but I suppose later in life (much later) it will serve him well. Ah well, I am sure its quite normal, he is just a very 'strong-willed' child, who certainly knows his own mind. In the meantime I will try to keep praising the positive and ignore the small stuff-anything to stop my home being a battleground. Thanks for comments. Re some of the other posts on Steve Biddulphs raising boys...I am a single parent and he terrified me with all the emphasis on fatherly guidance, I am scanning all my male aquaintances for decent role models but I think maybe my ds has a lack of male influence in his life...oh no not another thing to feel inadequate about!!

Hey Hilz, my ds had plenty of male influence at that age and he was still hard work sometimes so don't assume it's because you're on your own! I like Steve Biddulph on the whole but I'm not keen on his daycare and father comments tbh. I agree, it sounds normal and he's testing you to see what he can and can't get away with so pick your battles, definitely agree with that. Clothes, aaaagggh, I remember the battles over those, bloody annoying isn't it? Can you just airily say OK, we'll go in your pyjamas then? If he won't come to eat tell him it's there and just wait for him to come, if he won't go when you've got to go somewhere start to go out of the door and just wait calmly, just don't let him see it's getting to you. I know that's easier said than done though! I remember standing in the street with 3 yo ds refusing to walk another step (always when I didn't have the buggy with me) and I'd just stand and wait. Sometimes I'd call someone for a chat if I thought I'd be waiting a while (ignore old ladies who try to interfere, tell them you're handling it thanks) and he'd come eventually. Usually, eek! Make it clear that some things are non negotiable, like holding hands over roads etc and also sometimes the answer is "Because I said so" - whilst it's nice to answer their questions a lot of the time you can't always do it. Sometimes I used to pretend to see something really interesting (you do have to find something though but mine would be very minor sometimes) and say "oh my goodness, look at that!" and he'd forget his strop and come running. Anyway, good luck. 3.5yos can be trying, lovely as they are too.

OOh, Hilz, sounds like you are doing too much talking with your adorable, clever little boy. If you need to hold his hand when you walk, just say, remember, we hold hands to cross the road and hold his hand - there's no negotiation there at all - can't be, too dangerous. Just keep repeating, we have to hold hands when we cross the road. NEVER get into elaborate justifications or explanations over stuff like this. Re asking him to come to you, my ds never/very rarely does this - I think it's totally normal. I just go to him and get him or take his trousers to him. I also distract A LOT - ooh look red socks on your silly, tickly feet! - for meals, I don't ask I just pick him up and put him in his high chair (he's 2 1/2). I also literally pick him out when it's time to go if he's not coming by himself (not crossly BTW). I don't expect him to tidy up yet, and I don't expect him really to do as he is told. He's not a monster child at all, BTW, he's really very sweet and gentle and 'good' and I thoroughly enjoy him. I think cutting down the opportunities for arguments is really, really important. Having said all that, I think bringing up a child on your own is a tough, hard job and I totally respect anyone doing it and wouldn't minimise the difficulties involved in doing it all yourself.

Hi Hilz,

my nearly 4 year old can have days when I have to ask so many times it drives me nuts - I can really sympathise. Light competition is a good one (you clear up the green lego and I'll do the others and see who wins). Also changes to routine can sometimes help - we used to tidy up just before bedtime but DD was (I think genuinely) too tired. Now we do it before tea and she's usually co-operative. Think if there's a time of day that's really bad or a particular thing and see if you can make a change. Sometimes you have to pick your battles too. Think about his mood and the likelihood that he's going to do what you ask - and if he's not then it might not be worth asking - coz (maybe like you) once the genie's out of the bottle and I've asked - I find I can't back down. DD's not the only one who can be stubborn!

The other thing is to give very clear definite instructions and deadlines - especially for important stuff. I've read that repeating a request doesn't really work - because, as far as the kids concerned, nothing has changed and the fourth or fifth request is no different from the first. You could try asking nicely (I always say please) 3 times and then issue a clear ulimatum: "I'm going to ask you one more time, then I'm going to count to three and if you haven't started doing it then x. Make sure x is realistic, easy to understand and doesn't punish you - ie no point in saying "then we won't go to the playground" if not going to the playground means both of you going nuts whilst confined at home. You can do sitting on the step, maybe, or take away a favoured toy. We do the step and we VERY rarely actually have to do it - the threat always works but it drives me mad that we have to get to that stage...but if you do threaten something you have to carry it out! some people recommend offering a choice (ie this t-shirt or that one, as opposed to get-dressed) but DD quickly caught on to that one. Star charts worked for us - for specific things and short periods eg a star chart purely for tidying up - with us it established tidying up as part of the normal routine and we could drop the chart after a couple of weeks.

BTW I really don't think it's possible to talk to your kids too much and feel quite strongly that "because I say so" is rarely a good enough reason and stores up problems for the future. I think it's very easy to underestimate children's ability to understand and I think explaining why something is important is an important part of teaching them about the world and teaching them to be independent. OK so you might not want to get into justifications whilst standing at the kerb - but if you explain later and they can see that there really was a good reason then they're more likely to trust you. Whenever I've been driven to "because I say so" I've always explained - later - that there are situations in which I understand better than her, and it's because I love her so much that I have to make a quick decision. I always explained the hand-holding thing and now it's never an issue - not because she's being obedient or because she doesn't want to be told off but because she understands and - because she understands - she actually wants to hold hands when we cross the road.

And remember that all kids can be like this. When you have a bad day, try to remember a good one and never beat yourself up about it. It's the hardest job in the world.

Hilz,

Are you sure thats not my son?? That sounds so much like mine. You feel your always shouting at him, and you feel guilty because you have shouted at him, and you look back and you've done it all day. I have the same problem too. My mum says don't confront him, but i want him to do as he's told and i don't want him turning into a little S**t. I try to ignore the stuff i can ignore, and persist with the stuff i do want done, just don't shout, take him by the arm look him in the eyes and just tell him. Its worth ago it works with mine sometimes. And try not to let it get to you so much. I can feel my blood boil sometimes. Chin up, you'll be fine, it will pass.

Children don't grow out of this. Ds is 8 and still has selective hearing.

Can I recommend a book called The Social Toddler? It can be used for children rather younger than yours but it is wonderful for changing your perspective on all this stuff. I'm sorry but I think you can talk too much, explain in simple terms, yes, but when you get drawn into constantly justifying yourself that just makes for arguments. Think Brat Camp - gentle, kind reiteration rather than argument. And reduce your expectations - it also reduces your stress levels IME.

Ahhhh, sounds like my ds, who's just 4. He has started to become very defiant and answering back, but on the other hand can be very loving and polite. We have resorted to 'time out' in his bedroom now, just 5 mins at the moment, and withdrawal of treats (and not backing down) e.g. that planned visit to friends house to play, even though it might mean letting down said friend's parent.

Hatter, I do think that sometimes "because I say so" is a good enough answer. It's just not possible or realistic to explain everything, always. I agree with aloha on that and I think, also quite strongly, that it isn't 'storing up problems for the future'.

Thanks for all the advice evryone. I do most of these things, like the time out (4 mins on the bottom stair) gentle frim repetition, holding hand and looking into eyes, counting to 3 or x (x being no bedtime story, which ALWAYS works, have only had to carry through twice in over a year of using this one)and star chart for good behaviour. Like you say there are good days and bad days. Sometimes I think half the problem is boredom, he is fine at nursery with lots of children to play with, but at home he is an only child and me a single mum and he demands a lot of time for play etc. I try hard to spend lots of time playing and learning when I can, but you can't be there all the time when you have a house to look after (and essays to write in the evening as I am a student also)I guess in a way the most reassuring thing is to hear that this is more or less normal. He is just a boistrous strong-willed kid who likes to test the limits. Sure i wouldn't want him any other way. I just worry sometimes that he might be more misbehaved than normal, and that might mean i am doing something wrong, or he has some kind of emotional problem. I know...neurotic right? But don't we all worry...just want to know that we are doing best by our kids and getting it right, at least some of the time??!!!

your son sounds like a very intelligent boy, who may be needs constant stimulisation. I have only girls, so I don't know much about boys, but what about football, swimming, park, energy burning stuff etc. Don't be too hard on yourself, I think we all have times when we don't enjoy our children and do a lot of shouting. I always try to be firm during these times and then a few months later when things have improved I'm an easy push over.

Think that sound sabout right - I'm a student as well meant to be doing dssay now but once again distrated - have now started bargainning with dd over non important things ie if we do this boringthing first then we can do something fun after

i agree goodkate. Could your ds be gifted hilz? Just a thought as he sounds extremely clever, especially thinking up 5 different reasons why he shouldn't do it
You both sound very close to one another and I bet he's a delight.

Have u threatened him with reins? I still use mine with ds 3 1/2. The threat of it may be enough to get him to conform at the roadside?

Hi Wickedwaterwitch,

I know all kids are different and I know we all have to use "because I said so" sometimes, (as I said, I do use it, but rarely, and explain afterwards). I can just remember, as a kid, feeling patronised, frustrated and very disinclined to do what was requested. I was prefectly willing to do something if there was a good reason - and dd1 is very similar. I just don't want dds to feel that way and if they are like me (and I think they are) it would be counter-productive anyway.

I have put this up on the wall by my desk. This is for YOU-hope you don't find it annoying! I find it even more helpful when trying to cope with my colleagues at work! it's from some tao for parents book i think

Good Behavior
"There are many ways to get children
to behave as you wish.
You can force, plead, and bribe.
You can manipulate, trick, and persuade.
You can use shame, guilt, and reason.
These will all rebound upon you.
You will be in constant conflict.
Attend instead to your own actions.
Develop contentment within yourself.
Find peace and love in all you do.
This will keep you busy enough.
There is no need to control others.
If you are able to release even some small part
of your persistent need to control,
you will discover an amazing paradox.
The things you attempted to force
now begin to occur naturally.
People around you begin to change.
Your children find appropriate behavior
emerging from within themselves
and are delighted.
Laughter returns to all."

but usually I just lose my temper.

majorstress, i can relate to that as i do think alot of the time the tantrum also comes down to how the adult is feeling at that time. (I'm talking about me BTW, no-one on here!).
An example is that me and dd have just made cakes and she decorated them to take to nana's house. She was puttting them into a plastic container and they wouldn't fit so i got another one but she wouldn't have it! She was squashing them all in one and i found myself getting really worked up and agitated that she wouldn't listen.
I actually had to stop myself and take a deep breath and think about how trivial it was that i was getting stressed about them getting squashed!!

(Maybe the time of the month!!!)