Any one with experience of self harming/attempting suicide in 11 year old?

[jimijack]

It's my niece.
Over the weekend she has been cutting herself and looking on the internet about how to properly kill yourself by cutting the wrists.

She says she is being bullied in high school. School are aware.

Niece was hospitalized on Friday overnight due to wounds. (Superficial in nature).

There have always been issues with behaviour with her.

Cams are involved but from what I can gather, they say it's an isolated incident.
I think it's the beginning of things to come.

Where do we go from here? How can we help her?

Bump

Researching suicide and cutting is serious and she should be getting therapy. Her parents should push for this.

Isolated incident? I wouldn't have thought so and I'm very surprised CAMHS would think so!
My daughters CPN told me once that self harming is absolutely rife amongst teenagers, in the region of 1 in 10, but my daughter says the actual number is higher.
If it's any comfort it should pass. My girl had a horrible few years, self harming and eating disorder too, but at 17 is over the worse of it and is now a healthy weight and self harming is now rare.
I'm sorry to say the best help we got was when we took her to A&E after s suspected overdose and she was admitted to a children's ward - CAMHS raised their game after that. (She has since been diagnosed with ASD, not that I'm saying this is what's going on with your poor niece.)
Are you close? If you are try to get her to talk to you privately. Don't try to stop her self harming even though I know that sounds impossible and even wrong - cutting is a way of dealing with overpoweringly strong emotions and transforming them into one red line (hopefully just one) and it isn't done for attention at all in fact self harming children are desperately ashamed afterwards and will try hard to not be detected.
As awful as it sounds, my best success lay in allowing my daughter to be open and honest with me about it, without judgement or anger, and helping her with the physical consequences - helping her keep her wounds clean and hidden from others, and when healed treating with Bio oil or aloe or similar to help minimise scarring.
I'm very sorry she's going through this. Pm me if you want.

Thank you.
I also think that this is not isolated but a sure sign of things to come.
She cut herself specifically to try to end her life rather than to release pressure, so she says.

Her words were "the world will be a better place without me"
She is 11.
She has never done anything like it before, that her mother is aware of. It's a complex dynamic to be honest.

I believe that her mother will bury her head. Awful to say, but has not much fight in her, it will be too much effort to be proactive about this.

I find niece difficult to communicate with, I always ensure that I am very positive around her though.

That's so sad. I'm sorry I misread your post, I was in the dentist with dd and was distracted. But I still think CAMHS are mistaken.
Although saying "the world would be better off without me" is very familiar to me, poor kid. I hope the news that she was hospitalised will raise a big red flag with camhs, it certainly did for us, and I do agree with you that this isn't going to go away any time soon.
Is her mum your sister? Any other kids? Do you think dn would have a weekend with you? Even if she doesn't want to talk it would be good for her to spend time with you, a change of scene can really help even if it only gives her some head space.
I don't know what the protocol is between hospitals GPs and schools, but I'm certain that the school need to be made aware of what's happened so they can work harder to support her and get to the bottom of this bullying because that's what will be at the root of it. At this age they want nothing more than to fit in with their peers and to be an outsider feels like the end of the world.

Hi jimijack
I'm a recently qualified counsellor and just undertook some training last week on self harm .. although inexperienced I picked a few things up that might be helpful:
Self harming is often a way for people to cope with emotional distress as it brings relief from the overwhelming emotions. However, it can't be assumed that because someone is self harming that they won't attempt to take their own life. Because of what your niece has said I think it's important to make sure that her GP, CAMHS, school, parent(s) are aware of how serious this is - but it would be best to seek your niece's consent to let those people know before you tell them. She may want to tell them herself and she may want you to be with her if she does.
People often use self harm as a way of communicating with others - to let others know their distress and as a way of seeking help.
It may / would be helpful for your niece to speak to someone who will listen to her and help her with the original problem (i.e. the bullying) - by this I mean a counsellor / psychotherapist / play therapist etc. She should be able to access this kind of service either through her GP or through school.
Perhaps (if you feel you can talk fairly openly with her) you and she could talk about coping strategies and discuss alternatives to the self harm when she feels like cutting herself (e.g. go for a walk, listen to loud music, shout, scream, write it down, draw on herself with red pen, have a bath, draw, etc)
and if you can - make an agreement (e.g.) that she phone you if she feels she at risk of seriously harming herself and that she tells you.

Hope this helps a little. I feel for you and her .. I do hope she gets through this awful time.
xx

It's usual practice for CAMHS to offer a further follow up appointment; it will become clearer then if it is likely to be a one off or whether there is a need for further input based on whether there are any continued suicidal feelings / further self harm or whether the feelings have largely dissipated. If there is still a need for support they should identify where that is to come from, whether from CAMHS or from any other service (eg young people's counselling services).
I would suggest encouraging your niece's parents to ring up CAMHS and clarify when the follow up appt will be. Her parents can also ring CAMHS to seek support or raise concern if they have any worries regarding your DN in the meantime.
Young Minds website has some good general info re self harm and supporting children who self harm which you may find useful.

And I would also suggest that her parents request an urgent meeting with the head of year from her school regarding any bullying that may have been a trigger for this. Any school issues that might be contributing to how she is feeling need nipping in the bud.
The main thing largely though is to remember to keep life going as normal in many ways; while she clearly needs support for how she is feeling and any risk managing with CAMHS, she still needs to feel that this event has not tipped her life upside down. If she has plenty of non- self harm related attention and positive interactions with her family and friends, this will help her keep her self esteem up and not allow her to develop any unhealthy ideas about self harm being a way to get her needs met.

It is a complex dynamic with lots of stuff going on within her immediate family.
There is a second child involved, they decided that together they would end their lives with knives. (Not a relative, a child from school)

That, to me, is both worrying and alarming & a display of very abnormal thinking in a young child. Niece looks 8/9,is very self confident & street wise with very little restriction or boundaries from day 1.

She spends loads of time with my mum, her nan but now my mother is unable to cope with her behaviour and attitude as she can be aggressive, rude, demanding and difficult. Mum has told my sister that she is no longer willing to have niece.

I just feel that this is too huge a problem and that no one has realized the half of it.