DD not working at school

[giddly]

My DD is in year 4 and probably above average but not stellar in achievement - doing fine basically. However, she goes through phases of doing very little work at school. She stares into space and writes hardly anything. Sometimes it's worse than others, but this term has been dreadful. Her work, particularly writing is much poorer than it was last year. In the past the teacher has set up a smiley system that really helped, but we're reluctant to start this again as really she should be self-motivating by this stage.

I really don't know what to make of it. In some ways I think it's a form of passive defiance -she's quite defiant at home and hates being told what to do but wouldn't overtly misbehave in school. Her self esteem is quite low and I don't think this helps either. I sometimes think she can be quite anxious, but she has the same teacher this year and very little has changed, so really can't see why anxiety would increase. However, I can't get beyond a growing feeling that she has some control over it - maybe even attention seeking (we try and give her plenty of attention when she behaves). She struggles with friendships among her peers, which makes her unhappy and I sometimes think this is the key, but we really can't seem to improve it. She's well liked, but has no reciprocal close friend - the school is small so choice is limited. She tends to spend time with other children who blow hot and cold towards her despite us encouraging her to broaden her friendships.

Her teacher is running out of ideas and getting frustrated (as are we). We've enrolled her in quite a few activities out of school to try and boost her confidence and make new friends. To make matters worse she has a very able and popular younger sister.

Her teacher is now getting her to bring work home when she doesn't finish it. It's a nightmare getting her to do it - she'll spend hours just sitting at her desk or moaning or complaining. She could easily finish it in 20 mins and go and do what she wants to do but just won't (or can't) get on with it.

Any ideas?

My first thought was, is she tired? You say she's doing lots of stuff after school? Does she sleep well?
Next thought was have you tested her hearing?

She shouldn't be bringing work home to finish it. Possibly she could miss a playtime to finish it.

Sounds like she isn't being engaged at school. What are they doing to help her be interested and motivated?

How is her confidence? Is she avoiding work to avoid feeling she's failed?

Hi - thanks for the ideas. Yes, her hearing has been tested and she sleeps OK. She's full of energy.
She complains she's bored when I ask why she's not doing any work, but a lot of the time she is interested in the subject. For instance she had to write a piece based on their history project and when she spoke about it she was interested and had loads of ideas - getting her to write them down was a different matter. Any idea would be gratefully received though on how we can help her engage more. She's not finding the work too easy so it's not that.
Problem is I think she quite likes missing playtime (she likes having the time alone with her teacher) and it doesn't help with the friendship issues.

Wolfiefan - I've wondered that as her confidence isn't great but I don't think it's the problem. She's far from a perfectionist.

Does she have physical problems writing?
Are the school expecting too much?
Are her ideas too detailed or advanced for her Y4 hand to write?

Hi - her handwriting's fine so again don't think it's that. I've seen her work for this term and it really is incredibly poor compared to what she's done last year. And she can do it when she puts her mind to it. I don't think she finds organising her thoughts easy and have often wndered if her processing speed is slow but I keep coming back to the fact that sometimes, when she wants to she can focus and write a good amount well. She can also be like this in maths although at the moment not so bad.

Bump for any more ideas please?

I have a Yr5 DD who is broadly similar. She is just in Yr 5 (Aug born) and struggles with school work, has no confidence in her abilities and refuses to write things down unless she knows they are correct. However she does have some mild SEN and works with a 1:1 as she has poor working memory and cannot process phonological sounds. This means both her maths and English work are affected. It is difficult to motivate her as she doesn't enjoy the work and feels little reward. We are actually looking at moving schools as this is just one thing in a line of things that appear to be causing her to disengage. Homework is a daily battle!

How does your DD find the work? Too easy? Too hard? I would be gently pushing the ball back into the school's court as to try and find clues.

Thanks fallen angel. I think she finds it reasonably challenging, but not too hard. Her reading is good, and her writing, when she puts her mind to it, is probably average or a bit above average (she got a 3B at the end of year 3 but a lot of her work this term has been below that level I would say). Yes, I think it is up to them to look into it really - we'll support, but are really at a bit of a loss.

My instinct would be just to back off. Make yourself available and support her with anything she asks, but don't push or pester.

What happens in school is largely up to them. I'm a big fan of what happens in school,stays in school. Though they should keep you informed.

Also be supportive of any none academic interests. She wants to go to the park/paint/play/swim/go to see a play etc great. Facilitate where you can.

I wouldn't worry too much about friends either. I have 1 dc who is extremely popular, always being invited here there and everywhere; and another who has only a couple of friends. It'll happen in its own time or not at all. Not everyone needs a lot of friends.

She's only Y4 and is obviously bright. It'll come.

Thanks Plop. AS of yesterday the school have decided to take quite a hard line with her, so I agree under those circs we need to back off and just support her. So far (based on only one day though) her work has improved, but obviously we don't know if this will continue, or even if it's the right approach. I'm still bothered that we haven't got to the bottom of the underlying cause.

It's good to hear the school are keen to support and push her. I would want to know the strategies they are using so I could be consistent at home. You might find however that all things considered this is just 'her' and her way of working. I was quite immature at 8/9 - in fact till year 10 I didn't really consider the significance of working hard. You might find as she matures, she naturally wants to do better. At least that's what I hoping for my DD!

Thanks fallen - she is quite immature in a number of ways, so this may be part of it.

giddly, the way you've described your DD is very similar to how I would have described my DD2 before she was diagnosed with AS. She used to zone out in the classroom and the teacher found it very frustrating because she could say everything beautifully but it never got down on the paper.

We now understand that this was a combination of sensory overload, tiredness from the demands of social interaction, anxiety about which words to choose and difficulties with executive function which is basically organising yourself through complex tasks.

Of course you've only described a tiny amount of your DD's behaviour so I could very well be miles wide of the mark but it may be worth you reading around Girls with Asperger's Syndrome, especially what is written by Professor Tony Attwood.

Could you maybe enquire about a scribe? Sounds like a slight bit of dyspraxia - being able to talk about the subject but struggling to write it down

honestly its usually confidence that is at the heart of this. They start disliking the attention that doing good work gets/ having to share it.

I think you need to have a long talk with her about what it is that is worrying her.

I'm an ex secondary teacher btw.

Hi - thanks for yur responses. I've often wondered if she has mild Asperger traits (and have read quite a bit about how it is different in girls). Some parts of her behaviour seem to fit, but other's really don't. I would ceratainly never rule it out though, and if she continues to find it difficult to cope I will look into possible assessment.

Embox - i don't think it's the actual act of writing that's a problem. Hr writing is neat (better than mine!)and a bit slow but generally OK. She doesn't have any physical signs of dyspraxia, but again her difficulty processing does make me wonder what's going on.

Tobysmum, I think you certainly have a point. She certainly has little confidence in her academic work and when asked to choose a partner will always gravitate to one of the children who really struggles with academic work as she says "we're about the same level". I have tried so many times to get her to talk about what is going on, but nothing. Will continue to try though.

Goldmandra, my dd is ATM getting assessed for AS she is really popular but would rather spend her time alone in the library or wherever a quiet and she has loads of feedback in discussions in the class as is her ability to tell a story but can she hell process this and get it on paper she has always been in top groups up until this year when she has been dropped Dow. A group in literature. It was only about 4 months ago that the school have picked up on this and I was in denial as I thought if anything was wrong with any of my children me and their dad would notice this but clearly this is not the case. So OP it might be worth all your whiles to ask if the school has any concerns of this nature because as I read your OP it just made me think of how my dd was behaving last term. I hope everything is ok I understand how frustrating it is.

Sorry - only jsut got this response. Thanks very much. I think I might raise this at school. Her work has now picked up, but I don't want us to be constantly "fire fighting" without getting to the bottom of the problem. Those of you who have had DDs diagnosed as AS, did the approach the teachers take change, an did it help?

Those of you who have had DDs diagnosed as AS, did the approach the teachers take change, an did it help?

Yes. There will always be a few entrenched in the idea that children just have to be forced to comply at any cost but, on the whole, diagnosis has brought a willingness to try to understand their difficulties, to look for reasons behind the behaviour and to try strategies to help.

Check out meres irlen syndrome, it explained a lot of my reluctance to focus in class, though I was never diagnosed til college! I thought everyone saw writing like that! Worth a look :)

Have you asked her if she is thinking about anything when she stares into space in class? Her answer may be very telling.

I have had rather a few pupils who just zoned out, and it tended to be because they just wanted to switch off from a very mundane, everyday environment and go someplace else in their minds.

Around seven and eight also tends, ime, to be the time when certain children begin to develop quite a detailed inner landscape. The school environment and atmosphere is quite commonplace and familiar by that point, so they don't need to pay attention to their surroundings so much, which then enables them to go elsewhere.

I think it is worth considering that her behaviour will have some form of payback for her either brief or sustained in some way and it is worth finding out what that payback is.

Worksallhours - you've described me to a tee! I always managed to keep below the radar though. It could be that until she was strongly told off the positive outweighted the negative. However, I think a lot of her thoughts are more anxiety related from what she says.
Blueberry - she had convergence insufficiency when younger so again this could be an issue.

Watching with interest as this describes my year three ds.