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Dh and dd ... it's like a battle zone

55 replies

WigWamBam · 26/09/2006 20:10

Dh generally does bath and bed time, but for the past few months it really has been like a battle zone. The pair of them end up yelling and screaming at each other and it's driving me up the wall.

He asks her to do something, she ignores him. He reckons he can ask her 15 times and still no response. So he yells. And then she screams back, so he yells some more.

Bedtimes are dreadful. She won't go to the toilet before bed, so we end up having WW3. Tonight she wouldn't take her hairband off and the yelling and shrieking that ensued probably had the entire street gossiping. Eventually he gets her to take it off, and she ends up shouting, banging her legs on the bed, crying and distressed because he's lost it with her again.

Last night he smacked her. We have always said that we would never smack or use physical punishments with dd, but he felt that he didn't have anything else to use as a punishment. She doesn't respond to anything else he does.

I think she's pushing the boundaries to see how far she can go. I also think there's an element of winding him up because she knows she can, and then watching the cabaret that he puts on when he blows up. But even so it ends up upsetting her as much as it does him.

I don't know how to tell him to deal with this. I've told him how I would handle it, but he reckons he's tried and it doesn't work. I've told him he needs to pick his battles, suggested he tries counting to three (always works for me), time-out - you name it, he reckons it doesn't work for him. I've tried to tell him that the more he shouts the less she will listen, but it doesn't wash - he'll be up there again tomorrow night yelling and screaming at her, and I'll be down here sobbing my heart out about it.

The only thing I can do is do it myself, because I don't have any of these problems. But he doesn't want that either, because he wants to spend time with her and he wants to do the bed and bath thing. He just doesn't want the battle that goes with it. He doesn't seem to see that he's half the problem. He's always been quite hard on her, and I've told him before that he expects more from her than she is capable of giving.

She is winding him up though, I can't deny that her behaviour for him isn't what it would be for me. But that said, she's only 5 and he is the adult ... I just don't know what to tell him to try and help him get that balance back again.

He hates it, she hates it, I hate it. What can I suggest to him to make life easier? What can we try to stop these tantrums (from both of them)? I keep telling him to remember she's only 5, and actually she's not a naughty child, but still he acts as if she's much older and much naughtier than she really is.

OP posts:
Elibean · 26/09/2006 22:51

Exactly - what I was thinking, too, but Edam said it better

edam · 26/09/2006 22:56

Ooh I do love a bit of flattery, thanks Ellbean.

HTH wwb, sounds like a right mare.

sandcastles · 27/09/2006 06:08

haven't read all the posts, so sorry if this has already been said...

Does he take into account that she is tired too? (and after working, he is too) I mean, bath & bed at the end of the day is more or less bound to be somewhat fraught due to her tiredness. I agree that it would be nice for him to spend some 1 on 1 time with her, so he's not always seeing the bad times.

DH has probs with dd not doing as he asks, but he will ask her twice and then not bother to make her do it or follow thru. He doens't like it that she will do as I say, even tho I explain to him that she knows the consequences when she ignores me.

Fwiw, I would do teeth, wee & then story in her bed.

sandcastles · 27/09/2006 06:15

Also, we found for dd that a 5 mn warning helps her to accept things...like "out the bath in 5 minutes" "bedtime in 5 minutes". We have always done this with her, but in the haze of emigrating we dropped it (our tiredness, stess etc) we couldn't understand why she just suddenly started reacting differently. Then I realsised we weren't doing the 5 min warning. dd is three, has not concept of 5 minutes, but she likes this better than "right, out the bath now"

GooseyLoosey · 27/09/2006 08:17

Hi Wig. My dh and ds sound a lot like your dh and dd together. As has been said, much of the problem (with us at least) is that dh cannot accept that ds does not do what he tells him to the minute he says it and it escalates from there. I too have sat downstairs crying at the arguments and have also intervened with fairly disasterous results (undermining dh etc).

Our solution is that I am there at such times and while dh takes charge, I will endeavour to enforce discipline when dh feels he is going to lose the plot and he indicates that he wants me to.

Not sure whether I recommend this approach or not - does wonders for dh and ds's relationship but not sure where it leaves ds and I as I am always the one enforcing things. However, it does mean that I feel in control and am no longer upset by what is going on and dh gets to spend time with ds.

Elibean · 27/09/2006 10:12

Anytime Edam (that'll be £5, thank ye kindly)

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 10:56

I'm loving your posts, sunnysideup! I quite agree that she should be able to decide some things for herself (like whether she sleeps the wrong way up!) and when I put her to bed she's able to do that ... which I guess is probably why she kicks off when dh is more rigid about things. I think we're going to have to make it more about them just hanging out together rather than putting him in a position where he feels he has to assert his authority. He wants to do it though, because he's not here every night and he wants to be with her - when he is here, it's at bath time through to bedtime. When, of course, they're both tired. There's MIL issues at the moment as well so he and I are both stressed even before dd gets started!

This "blind compliance" thing is something that I think dh and I don't really agree on. Someone was talking about it on a discipline thread here recently - that poster expected blind compliance purely based on the fact that they are the parent - and I was surprised when I mentioned it to him that he agreed with that. Although as you say some things are non-negotiable - but I have always explained why rather than just shouted her down.

Elibean, maybe you're right - perhaps she does need some input in what she does with Daddy. I think I know the answer even before we ask her though ... she has always seen Daddy as being there to play and have fun with. Mmmm, we're getting back to the lightening up thing again, aren't we.

Sandcastles, we do the "five minutes", "three minutes", "one minute" thing ... doesn't make much difference for him! She always asks for one more minute, which he usually gives in to, but still won't do as he asks when he asks her.

Goosey, dh asked me last night to sit in with them for a few days, to see where he's going wrong. The problem is that while I'm there she'll behave ... and the first time I'm not there she will start again. It will stop the problem for the time being but doesn't address the underlying cause. Plus it puts all of the onus for discipline onto me which I don't really want to happen. Because I'm here all the time and he's not she has always seen me as the one she has to behave for - he's just there for the fun things. And I think that may be where it's all coming from ... I have no problems with her behaviour at all, it's only him she plays up for.

It's awful when he's there telling me that he has considered staying at work until after she's gone to bed simply because of this, when I know that she adores him and loves spending time with him.

OP posts:
batters · 27/09/2006 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 12:02

Thanks batters. I think we need to start by doing that - changing it round so the story is at the end and depends on her not playing him up. She likes to have a story in our bed because whoever is telling the story can snuggle up with her, but I think for now it might have to be in her own bed - so he can just turn out the light and leave the room if he has to.

I'm sure you're right - it will be chaos and havoc. But it can't be any worse than it already is.

OP posts:
Bozza · 27/09/2006 14:42

What sort of bed does she have? I always get in bed with my 5yo when I am reading to him. But he does have a full size single so might not work on a junior bed.

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 16:35

It's one of the Ikea extendable things - quite narrow and low to the ground. There's no way either of us could get in with her - even if it was wide enough I'm not sure it would take my or dh's weight! That's the reason we started doing the story in our bed, so we could snuggle up with her to read.

OP posts:
Tawny75 · 27/09/2006 16:43

My DD went through a stage of this too, I found changing the routine helped.

Also with the story, can Dh not sit on the floor with her sat on his lap, then she still gets all the closeness and cuddles, can see the book and if she plays up DH can just pop her into bed and leave.

sandyballs · 27/09/2006 16:52

Very interesting, particularly Sunnysideup. I also have a very strong willed 5 year old DD and a DH who expects "blind compliance". Experience has taught me that it just doesn't work with her, we need to devise other strategies in order to make her behave but he still doesn't "get it". So we often get the kind of stand-off shouting matches that you describe WWB and the occasional smack which upsets me terribly. I don't see her as being particularly "naughty" - she's hot headed and feisty and has a lot of characteristics that will be great as an adult, but a bit tiresome for her parents at the moment , but DH just sees it as disobedience. It doesn't help that her twin is far more laid back and compliant and hates her father getting cross so backs down without any aggro. All so complicated really isn't it, but very interesting reading this thread.

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 17:01

Your dd sounds very like mine, sandyballs - I don't think she's naughty, just a bit hot-headed and feisty, as you say. It's all very strange though that it's just our dhs they wind up ...

He could try reading to her sitting on the floor, Tawny, but I couldn't ... I'd never get back up again! I can see we probably need to move it from our bed, if he's going to be able to walk away if she starts kicking up, but I'm not sure of the best way to do that yet.

OP posts:
Elibean · 27/09/2006 17:12

They're probably too much alike

Elibean · 27/09/2006 17:12

Meaning dh and dd, not your dd and Sandyballs'!

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 17:23

She has a lot of his characteristics, I have to say ... both stubborn as mules, both always think they're right, both quite intense. He's often told me how much she is like he was when he was a child.

OP posts:
Sunnysideup · 27/09/2006 17:49

glad it's been helpful Wig! Good luck with it all; I really identify with those on this thread as I do have a ds who is a strong flavour and is not at all a biddable, compliant child....they are a challenge now as sandyballs says but it WILL stand them in good stead as adults!

Elibean · 27/09/2006 17:50

Might help him to realize the child he's fighting with is himself in small, female guise? Here's another thought then - ask him what he would have responded well to when he was dd's age, from his Dad!

Elibean · 27/09/2006 17:52

Oh, and every time I pick dd up from nursery her group leader says things like 'ooooh, she's very independent isn't she' . Bright, great communicator, reasonable if reasoned with, very imaginative, but biddable? I think not

WigWamBam · 27/09/2006 17:54

From what I gather, his dad wasn't particularly hands-on. Most of the discipline came from his mother, who claims that at 3 years old he would come and ask to be hit to calm him down, and I don't intend to start doing that! I'll ask him the question though, it's an interesting take on things.

I think you're right, sunnyside - their characters will stand them in good stead later in life, and I also think dh will understand her better later in life. Her character is the type that he would admire in one of his peers - he just doesn't know how to handle it in a five year old!

OP posts:
sandyballs · 28/09/2006 10:12

How did it go last night WWB?

WigWamBam · 28/09/2006 17:00

Not too bad; I had a bit of a chat with both of them before they went up, about how (and why) she needed to do as Daddy asked her, and that I didn't want to hear any screaming and shouting. Dh changed the routine so that she had her wee and cleaned her teeth before her story and it seemed to be a bit better. Although she did wag her finger at him when he had to ask her twice to do something and say "Mummy said there was to be no shouting ..." - I think she got the wrong end of the stick there!

Let's see how tonight goes without the little pep talk ...

OP posts:
Sunnysideup · 28/09/2006 18:42
Smile
Elibean · 28/09/2006 19:54

Sounds better

Lol at your dd, WWB...like the sound of her!