my dd was out of control yesterday and I was out of my depth :o(

[Mascaraohara]

So my lovely 4 year old dd mutated yesterday into some god awful moster intent on driving me to dispair. I felt completely out of control and I would say she had me on the verge of tears on two seperate occassions. I had to ask dd to take her out of my sight a few times and smoked 4 cigrettes, just to be in the garden and out the way for a few minutes... it was awful.

How do other people handle kids that are playing up? normally a time out or equivelent works but yesterday was like nothing I've ever had to deal with before.

What was she doing in particular? Do you have an older dd too then? Or did you mean you got dp to take her out of your sight?

My dd is 4 in a week or so and her rage and stroppyness has upped enormously over the last month or so. Really quite shocking to see and hear what she comes out with some days. Then others she's like her old self.

sorry 'dp' took her out.

She was hitting, pinching, kicking, spitting her food at us and over the floor she split the skin on my nose cos she smacked me in the face so hard my glasses cut me. she was refusing to do anything, everything was wrong. Laughing at me when I was telling her off... I mean what do you do when a child laughs in your face?? I tried to ignore her at certain points yesterday - the turn your back thing but she'd just come up and start pinching me really hard.

She was still kicking off at bedtime.

I can really see after yesterday how some people lose it with children. I didn't but I could have.

oh dear MoH - is she settling in at school? could it be related? gotta do school run now

Was this behaviour really out of the ordinary for her? Could she have eaten or drunk anything with additives which she reacted to?

Very very very out of character... she's very placid for the most part but she does have a bad temper, normal it's a short 'average' tantrum and she's very quickly pacified and apologetic and we have a cuddle etc but yesterday was mad. Never seen her like that before, and certainly not all day - it was bizarre.

Had to shut myself in my bedroom at onepoint and take a few minutes to myself because she'd wound me up so much. Even then she was banging on the door.

Iota, School has been going ok really but I guess it could be.

I'm trying to think what she had eaten

Take her temperature just to be sure she's not about to come down with something. New school, new bugs (we're off sick today) or could be chicken pox in which case it might be a few more days yet.

Remaining calm is 'challenging' but it will help enormously with both ending the bad behaviour and keeping you from having a guilt trip about how you dealt with it.

I do the Supernanny thing of crouching down to DC's level, telling them it's unacceptable behaviour and then warning them of a suitable consequence. But it has to be something you'll carry through - I'm quite able to confiscate toys, not take them to parties or playdates etc - initially I do get a whopping great tantrum about it in which case they also get sent to their rooms to cool off but it does work.

If I'm being physically attacked then I hold their arms to their sides and try not to be aggressive about it - when they were smaller I would also sit them on my lap with my arms round them which worked as an effective restraint. Some people might disagree with anything involving 'restraint' in which case I'd argue that they've probably never been hit in the face by a 4yo armed with a large dinosaur - well I can joke now!

My other tactic is to nip it in the bud by getting their boots on and taking them outside - particularly on rainy weekends when they've been cooped up for too long.

Don't know if I'm going to be able to reassure you, as my dd is now 9, and still has 'episodes' like this - and has done since she was about 4.

I can't say I can see a time when I will be able to 'cure' this, but I have learnt some coping strategies over the years.

Firstly, DON'T engage with her on the same level ie don't scream and shout, ignore as much as you can, if it means locking yourself away, so be it (remove any other children from danger). I realise it is so easy to say this, and almost impossible to do (especially for me as my temperament is so similar to hers), but we find that screaming and shouting back at her just escalates the situation.

Which brings me to my second point - if she is being violent, try not to get physical with her at all. Even trying to remove my dd to her room physically makes her almost literally boil over with temper. Again, it just escalates the situation.

When she is calm (perhaps even a couple of days later) try talking to her and asking her why she thinks she gets so mad. I once saw a method to expel anger on one of the parenting programmes on TV - it involves pretending to blow up a balloon, so almost blowing the anger out. They also suggested doing star jumps, again, using the energy in a different way.

Bear in mind this is all advice from someone who still has the problem, so I see it more as coping strategies than actually solutions, but I hope it gives you something to think about.

Lol, at armed with a large dinosaur.

I was crouched down discussing whether or not she was going to stop hitting me if I let her out of her room (after a time out) when she embedded my glasses in the bridge omy nose!

Whatever I tried she just laughed at me.

thanks Emsiewill.

I did litterally carry her up to her bedroom a couple ot times yesterdya for time outs but I almost felt like they were more for her sake than mine (iykwim).. like I really had to get her out of my sight for a minute or two.

It didn't help that I was getting so angry with myself for not dealing with it well.

We of course have the problem that at 9, dd is not that much smaller than me, so any attempt on my part to manhandle her just degenerates into a physical fight, which is just not the way to go.

Of course at school she is a model pupil - there aren't enough superlatives in the dictionary according to her teachers.

I find it really depressing when dd goes off on one, and I feel such a failure as a parent. Having said that, my SIL was with us the last couple of times dd had an episode, and she was very reassuring and supportive, which was great.

Anyway, perhaps if we'd been a bit stronger when she was 4, we wouldn't still be in the situation now, so hopefully you can learn from my mistakes lol!

lol, thanks! Will you still be around in 5 years time when I 'm posting about my out of control 9 year old????

how is she today mascara?

Oh god, in 5 years dd will be 14, will I still be sane by then?

she had a distrubed night, which I expected after such an fired up day but was fine this morning... woke up grumbling about being tired and went off to her childmonder happy as larry...

When was she four? Can you ask her what was up yesterday?

hope she's had a nice time at school today. I think they do find it stressful because it's a change to what they know, and sometimes they are not equipped to express their turmoil and it comes out in anger.

Oh hark at my amateur psychology - not that I know anything about it really - maybe she is just sickening for something?

Maybe you're right re. the anger Iota.. I tried to have a bit of a chat with her before she fell asleep last night as didn't want her to go to sleep with us angry at each other but all she was prepared to say was that she wasn't saying sorry and that she wanted her panda back because she loved it (confiscated keyring toy). so we just had a cuddle and a chat about something else.

She was 4 in june

I'm quite fascinated because I don't think my dd has done anything quite as major as this yet. She sounds more on the lines of what yours 'usually' does of having odd flares of temper / misbehaviour followed by floods of tears and great remorse. Maybe I've got this to come too!

Did she have crying fits too? Was she sorry when she'd punched you in the face?

And this is all very unusual?

So far my dd's bad behaviour is triggered by fairly obvious things like tiredness, lack of attention, perhaps me having too great a set of expectations of her. But this sounds different, am I right?

imaginaryfriend.. my dd's normal tantrums are just that normal tantrums triggered by lack of sleep, not wanting to share a toy, not getting her own way etc followed by tears, and wanting a cuddle, remorse etc

This was very different. The spitting the biscuit was the first thing and it just escalated from there and even after screaming fit and tears when I tried to talk to her she was just smirking and lashing out.

Hope you haven't got it to come.

she did do something strange, after I'd put her to bed for the upteenth time and sat on the stairs through sheer exhaustion she undid the stair gate very quitely - walked down the stairs to the step infront of me and was stairing into my face/eyes really deeply.. she didn't say anything, she was looking at the cut on my nose and into my eyes.. she didn't say anything and neither did I.. she kept tilting her head and looking at my face - I couldn't work out if she was trying to wind me up or make friends.. that's when I put her to bed and we had a chat.

Has she started in reception recently?

I ask because my DS started two weeks ago and is having some episodes after school which are HUGE!!! He is pretty poisonous for an hour or so after school, had a huge tantrum last week when I asked him to stop at the kerb and not actually run out in front of that bus.....I think he like many others at 4 are finding school a huge challenge and a big change and the effort of reining themselves in during the day results in some pretty major letting off of steam at home with mum.....

He is much much better if I take him to the park immediately after school and let him run riot and be a general menace to society there for as long as I can bear it.

Fwiw, I think the way you are dealing with it is absolutely fab, you are remaining calm on the surface and taking yourself off away from her if necessary; I have taken myself to my room and given myself time out on occasion!!!!!! Just be consistent in whatever you are doing and it will be effective, and I think bundling her outside for an afternoon play might well be a key to calmer times at home?

Here's hoping, anyway.

That's so odd, mascara, the scenario you described of her looking into your face. It's almost like she was 'possessed' for the day! Have you thought of anything that might have triggered it? And how has today turned out?

By the way, what's your relationship like with her normally? Is it close or tumultuous? And how was she with your dp yesterday?

(ignore me if I keep asking too many questions , I'm just very interested)

Hi there, she was back to her old self yesterday - good as gold and very loving - the little girl I know..

..and yes it was literally like she was 'possessed' little b&gger

Normally we have a very close relationship, I left her dad when she was 6 months and was on my own for the most part of the next 3 years so we have always been very close. spent all weekends together as I work so I always try to have lovely time on weekends.