disiplining my 4 year old.... im running out of ideas

[Sleepyk]

Im at a loss as to what to do with my daughter. Some of the time she is fine its all "yes mummy" and "Im being super good arent I mummy?" (ie she knows how to be good) but the rest of the time its a battle. Today she refuse to get out of bed. I asked her nicely and gave her a good amount of time then I warned her that I was getting cross, then its if you dont get up when I count to 5 your treats will be gone for the day (she has no treats now)...then she cries because she has no treats , then she gets out of bed....its endless. She ignores people when they talk to her, she can be rude to anyone if the mood takes her and she just keeps pushing for a reaction. I have tried every trick in the book...sticker charts, praise, taking things away...she understands 100% but she just doesnt seem to care that there will be consequences. Im a patient person but I just cant get a handle on her at all (I have a 16 year old boy too who was a totally different child). Is this why people send children to boarding school?

That is because the consequences aren't really consequences, they are punishments. Why not deal in logical and natural consequences instead?

What incentive is their to get out of bed? Surely it is breakfast? Therefore start eating breakfast without her. If she is not downstairs before you have finished breakfast is over and she has missed her chance. She needs to believe you will follow through. If you wrapped, you will undermine yourself. Also in that scenario she cannot eat again until next food time (one aimed mid morning snack).

unfortunately...she would rather not eat breakfast! Its the first silent battle ground of the day and I cant send her to school having eaten no breakfast ....

First off, I would try talking to her about how she feels when she doesn't want to get out of bed, and see if there's any reason why she doesn't feel like eating/getting up, whatever. It may be a phase, her development etc, but if an adult felt like that my first step would be to see if everything was ok, if something was bothering them, so I would also do that with my child, rather than going straight in with the punishments. Has she just started reception? Is she simply overtired?

Next I would try incentives - if you get up now we'll have time for xyz before or after school, e,g you'll read her a book, do some colouring, park or baking when she gets in from school, something she likes.

If that doesn't bring any answers it might just be that she's struggling to follow the routine and maybe needs a bit more structure. I think in that case instead of focussing on the punishments try giving her firm choices that give her an element of control but both options are acceptable to you and move things in the direction you want to go.

There is usually one option they will go for, if only to avoid the least preferred one! I usually say I'll count to three then make the decision for them and that stops the ummming and ahhhing power games.

Or maybe: would you like five more minutes in bed? If I let you will you then get up nicely and have breakfast when I ask you again? And get her agreement. This works a lot with my ds, he feels like he's getting what he wants, but ultimately I also get what I want without a struggle and it actually takes less time overall than if we get in a punishment/stubbornness cycle.

My DD is exactly like this and bitter experience has taught punishments are ineffective. I do get some success with incentives, like "come downstairs now and we can do some of your sticker mosaic before school" but not always, and she hates feeling left out so I can say "well me and youngerDD are going to do xyz downstairs, looks like you will be missing out" and I leave. She usually follows.

Making things a competition helps so "getting dressed race! I bet you can't get your uniform on before youngerDD gets dressed!" Is a winner at the moment.

Punishments just make her more stubborn and angry, fuelling the defiance and ending in tears which makes for a much harder morning.

Does she like school? I would just get ready to go without her. My ds refused to put his clothes on for a teacher visit so I ignored. When the doorbell went he got dressed.

Negotiating works - e.g. agreeing a time to get dressed.

I would ignore her when you can if she plays up. Also don't label her as naughty or good otherwise if she decides she's a naughty girl then what's the point in her trying to be good.

Try reading 'playful parenting' www.playfulparenting.com. It helped me. Part of the problem is that as soon as you get annoyed and feel crap they know it and then the whole thing spirals. This gives tips about how to get out of that deadlock situation it's so easy to get into.

The book is a bit American and some of it is a bit hokey but as with all of these things, have a look and take the bits you like.

Yy, the book plant sitter recommends is v good. Stops you trying to 'win' with them and helps you to see where they are coming from, so you sort of work through things together.

People may disagree with this but it worked on me when I was younger and has also worked on DS who is 4.
If she doesn't want to get up I would say "fine don't get up we are all having breakfast" then after breakfast go back up to see if she is going to get up if not say "fine we are all brushing our teeth now" and so on with the last step being going up with coats and shoes on saying "we are going out now see you later" If this still doesn't work actually leave the house. (obviously just as far as the doorstep) I guarantee she will get up and she wont ever push it as far again. You may need to carry out this charade earlier than you would normally leave the house to get DD dressed and out the door on time. Missing breakfast for 1 morning will do no harm.

if she's 4 and at school then surely she's only just started school? How is she settling in? When was she 4?

I would also take to school with no breakfast and in pjs if that bad!

Pre warn school what's happening and that you will add banana or whatever to bag if so. Take school clothes in bag if needed, but usually you won't have to get that far! So can hopefully get the threat of it then school clothes on in hallway and banana and smoothie on the way to school

I agree with others, the way to discipline is to show the child the right way to go and reward them for attempts at improvement, then actual improvement, then getting it right. Be great company at breakfast. Talk to her friends who do like breakfast, and try something else to tempt her. (Pain au chocolate or toasted scotch pancakes were popular here at that age.)

Yes, I'd be saying missing breakfast one day won't harm. Point out that it can make her tired and hungry. Also to give her a lie in on some days, especially at this time of year when routines change and an hour of sleep lost can have a knock on effect.

Yes, check she has something in her day to be motivated by. If it isn't breakfast, then meeting up with a friend or school/playgroup or shopping or cm or whatever it is she does with her day. Check to see that these things are enjoyable and that your expectation is that she would enjoy these things. If she isn't, then talk to other adults who care for her.

I'd also try getting her to bed 10 minutes earlier, then 15, then 20 until she is getting up on time. Remind her that missing breakfast means less fuel in to have enough energy to last the day, so it means having an early night and maybe missing out on a bath or story for a night until she's gwtting up qith the family again.

Do listen to her though. Small children are not immune from serious mental health problems, however much we hate the idea.

She has been at nursery for a year so yes she has only just started proper school- but she has been like this since she was a baby - if some one says hello to her in.a shop for example she would give them a filthy look. I have tried the let's make this fun thing and some times it works... Last time she got up.and shut her door and went back.into bed - she isn't "tired" as in she isn't going to sleep she just doesn't want to do as she has been asked. I haven't labeled her as naughty and give her lots of praise when she is doing the right things but it's so draining. I have worked with children for years so I have seen a lot of different personalities and She knows full well when she is being humoured and it's not just getting up - it's everything from eating to brushing teeth... I will Def try some of the resources mentioned though thanks

I have one who has always marched to the beat of her own drum. It can be draining (but there comes a point at which I cannot keep up, I do not have boundless energy, so have learned to stop trying so hard to avoid getting to burnout by mid afternoon!)

What is she getting out of going back to bed? Do you say anything about it, or do anything? Is it that if she goes back to bed she gets fussed around, gets attention, or is bribed with something or is it just that there is some extra entertainment?

Is she able to communicate well enough, and get choices about her day without having to act out? Is she definitely not deaf or hard of hearing? Any difficulty processing what she hears, or understanding people's emotions or facial expressions? If you work with children you know what I'm getting at - is there any chance there could be some underlying cause for the behaviour which would explain it as her doing the best she can, and not actually being naughty or rude? Is she super bright?

YeGodsAndLittleFishes...lol ...Marching to the beat of her own drum is DEFINITELY what she does !! No, if she plays up I will ignore it as much as possible ....and can ignore it for a long time even when accompanied by moaning /crying...what, though do you do when you have to go out (to school) or she has to go to bed? I am happy to ignore her behaviour (as annoying as it is) and she will eventually get bored and stop but its those times when I cant just ignore her- as well as just wondering WHY WHY WHY! Hearing, comprehension and speech more than fine....she is very "switched on" but at her age her "intelligence" seems normal = we joke (out her her earshot before anyone jumps down my throat!) that she has bi polar...you just dont know which child youre going to get in the morning...

My dd is a lot like this, I've found trying to give her a bit more attention and responsibility in the am works well for us, can she be mummy's helper? My dd loves stirring my coffee, feeding the cats and having control over what she wears although she wants me to watch her get dressed. It's time consuming but her refusing to do some jig for half an hour while I make a series of desperate threats takes much longer

Mine needed to make her own choices, but she had to realise that going back to bed on a school day was not an option! I eventually resorted to a combination of bribes and bigging up the day and contrasting it with the negative consequences for us all. She actually did care that Mummy would get into trouble for not getting her to school in time and might have to pay a fine. She cared more that her sister would miss breakfast than whwther she would. I shamelessly used this!

She wasn't getting pocket money then, so I explained that all the 10p a week pocket money she might get when she becomes 6 would have to go towards paying the fine (so I turned it into something educational. Normalising educational type thinking and learning and bring school into the home, to help her feel more at home at school.) It really only got better once she was walking herself to school. September is always worse though, as her sleep pattern completely changes over the summer. (We joke that she is part vampire.)

Anyway, have a laugh at my morning: 12 years on and guess what? She missed the bus because she was doing her hair and lost track of time! (She now no longer walks to secondary school, she gets an early bus to sixth form college). She gets back home from the bus stop, hasn't had breakfast, has packed leftover curry for lunch in her bag which has leaked and she hasn't packed a water bottle. All this she does while keeping me waiting (because I'm driving her, so she thinks it is ok to waste my time, and a car can get her to college quicker than the bus and she won't be late.) So we have a nice long journey to school to talk this out, then I go to the beautiful park by the school for a good run. She still marches to the beat of her own drum, bless her, some things don't change... but the only way to get around it is for her to manage it herself.