Is it because the baby is nearly due, is it a phase or is there something wrong with her? - very long

[handlemecarefully]

My 20 month old dd has changed quite dramatically over the last 7-10 days. Her Day Nursery (she attends 3 days per week)has noticed it too and have mentioned it without prompting from me.

Basically dd has had the odd tantrum (some of them quite impressive) since the age of 17/18 months...but they numbered no more than a couple per day at most, were shortlived and were almost 'reasonable' (i.e. I understood why she was tantrumming).

However in the last 7-10 days she has been truly horrible and reduced her 35 year old mum to tears (who is the adult here!!).

Everything...absolutely EVERYTHING is a battle of wills, she won't get dressed in the morning, she refuses a nappy (she isn't potty trained - so this is a problem), she deliberately takes 15 minutes to descend the stairs (loiters on each step and pretends to be really, really interested in the wood grain or something), she won't eat her breakfast or wear a bib, she'll go into my study and throw the books off the shelf, last night she asked to get out of the bath so I helped her out, then immediately asked to go back in again - so I helped her back in, and she repeated this cycle about 4 times until I refused to help anymore.

I had to see my midwife this afternoon (am 38 weeks pregnant) and dd started a big trantrum because I wouldn't let her play with the cool water dispenser in the doctors surgery (she was flooding the carpet). Midwife was quite shocked and taken aback by the intensity of dd's tantrum (i.e. full blown hysteria). She was still going at the end of the consultation and I had to bundle her into the car seat with her resisting and fighting all the way. She is extremely strong and I had to apply considerable force to get her in the seat (it took me at least 5 - 10 minutes). I was feeling so desperate I even considered the unthinkable of driving home with her unsecured and sitting in the rear passenger footwell, but instead I persevered and swore and shouted at her (which I am not proud of). This whole tantrum continued after we got home and lasted 50 minutes in total.

At Day Nursery they have reported that she has bitten another child 2 days running. They also mentioned her obduracy (e.g. she point blank refused to leave the toilet after her nappy change this morning).

I am beginning to actively dislike her (I know that's wrong but I'm only human)...and I am certainly finding it very difficult to cope.

What's the matter with her - is it because I am having a baby in two weeks and things are changing around her (she moved into a new room a fortnight ago - but she seems to like it, however she has probably noticed all the baby stuff going into her old room)...or is there something wrong with her? I doubt its just her age because my friends who have toddlers do not report the same intensity of difficulty...All kids can be awkward, but her behaviour seems to be at an extreme end of the spectrum

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Hello, Hmc. God, poor you! Tbh, she sounds like my dd, who can be just like this, but she's 3 (though she's been doing it for a while and is actually better now than she used to be). I would say that it's a combination of her age and changes around her. Her routine and what is familiar is being undermined (in her eyes) and it's very unsettling at this age. My guess is that it's just a phase and I'm afraid you'll just have to be firm, consistent and ride it out. I think consistency is the key - she needs to know that some things are staying the same, please don't feel tempted to make allowances, though I really do understand that at 38 weeks all you need and want is a quiet life! Is your dh/dp around to take the strain off you (or saving holiday for the new baby??) Your mum? Anyone else she's familiar/comfortable with? I don't want to sound inconsistent, but it would help you if you could get a break, I know how wearing a child like this is. Good luck!

handlemecarefully,

YOur post is really similar to my own experience, my dd is 26 months and i am due to give birth this weekend. for the last month i've been having running battles over nappies, baths, car seats, clothing, food ( a big issue). I feel like i'm failing as a mum because i can't control it and feel guilty as hell for upsetting his world by introducing a newcomer. would really appreciate some advice too

HMC, as most people know my ds1 has been the 'best' tantrum, kid about. Your description of your dd really struck home to me. Can only say I think it will be a mixture of baby, and her age, and any other change going on.

Watched the Little Angels prog on BBC3 and they kept harping on about ignoring bad behaviour -ie tantrum - and rewarding good. Really basic stuff, but if youstick with it, and it is hard to do it, you do get fewer (note fewer not none) tantrums.

Sorry things are tough, but I'm sure it will get better. Your last comment was the same for me. I do believe however, that others do have the tantrums its just that noone else sees them.

Peppergirl, please don't feel bad. My ds1 was 24 months and 11 days when dd arrived and she was 24 months and 29 days when ds2 arrived, so I've been through this new-sibling-scenario! Honestly, most of what your child is doing they would be doing even if you weren't pg. Ds1 and dd both started their terrible twos well before their 2nd birthdays and they both felt additional disruption with the arrival of a sibling, but it was never directed specifically at the baby. Certainly ds1 went right off the new baby once the novelty had worn off, but now (they're 5 and 3) although they fight a lot, they wouldn't be without each other. Generally, I feel like a pretty crap mother, but the best thing I've done for my children is give them siblings! Good luck to you too!

My ds had his first real full-on tantrums the week I told him that we would be having a new baby living with us very soon. He would have been about 25m, and generally a very placid cooperative person. At the time I thought it might be coincidence, but reading your posts I'm sure it wasn't - he was furious. We had about 3 mega-tantrums a day for a week, together with a hunger-strike. It's a really horrible phase to go through. IIRC I was just patient and loving, but didn't give in to any of his tantrums and treated him as a younger non-reasoning child. The midwife told me that she watched us coming up the road to my a-n appointment that week and was shocked by him and impressed by me (at least that gave me a morale boost to continue dealing with the tantrums). But it did ease after a couple of weeks and he went back more-or-less to his normal self.

I took a few steps backward in what I expected from him. For example, when we come home the routine was and is for him to take of his hat and shoes himself, but that was turning into a fight, so rather than chivvy him constantly I just took them off him without saying anything, as if he was a good few months younger. And so on with other things. It made a bit more work for me, but life was much more peaceful, and when he was ready he got more involved and took on more responsibility spontaneously.

Hi HMC - Big hugs and sympathy - and a good deal of empathy aswell, as our ds is going through pretty much the same thing. I think it must be a combination of 'terrible twos' and the baby coming - I often catch ds looking at my tummy now (which is pretty unmissable) with quite a scared look in his eye, and although his language isn't brilliant yet, we know he's not looking forward to it. It must be really scary for a 2 year old to sort of know a baby's coming, but have no idea what that means - I feel really sorry for him...

Meanwhile he's starting to act up in really similar ways to the ones you've described - having to do things in a particular way (which could change from day to day) and if it's not done that way you get a good hour of tantrum/tears/etc.... He's also started pushing/kicking smaller children, which is a habit he had as a much younger baby/toddler - when he was about 18 months, but had stopped doing completely up until about a month ago - again, I think co-inciding with my tummy getting huge and him not being able to avoid thinking about baby.

I honestly think that when we have these flipping babies we're waiting to have, at least our toddlers will see what they're worrying about and maybe things will get better. I know for instance that ds is incredibly worried the baby will play with his trains - and as much as we talk to him about it, he doesn't understand that baby won't be able to take them off him - so I'm hoping once he sees how immobile baby is, that particular worry will go.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but hopefully this time before our babies arrive will be the worst of it..?

Ah well - I'm sure we'll be back on threads like this in a few weeks time...

My DD has also recently started similar behaviour to that you describe (without the biting), handlemecarefully, and there's not a new baby anywhere in sight for us! She is 23 months old and started "megatantrums" and serious boundary testing about 4 weeks ago, while we were on holiday. She is a very determined little girl, very independent and assertive and while these traits are not something you like to see in a nearly 2 year old, I keep trying to tell myself they are traits that will be good for her (if the anger is controlled!) later in life.

As to managing it now, we started with the "ignoring" method, but I found this very difficult as she is very loud, the tantrums can go for a very long time and she tends to follow me around mid-tantrum so I don't miss any of it. Now, if distraction doesn't work at first go, we warn her that if she doesn't stop she will go to bed (and no, this has not made her dislike her bed/bedroom and think of them as a place for punishment). If she doesn't stop (or start winding down) we calmly pick her up, place her in her cot, tell her she can come out when quiet and walk out of the room. It seems a lot easier to ignore a tantrum that isn't following you everywhere you go! This tack is definitely working for us as the tantrums, while not necessarily fewer, are definitely shorter and less intense.

Good luck to you, this phase will pass.

Thanks for the cyberhugs, support and advice - it does make a difference. I have some respite now, since I've just dropped dd off for her 3rd and final day at Nursery this week. So pleased that she is still going whilst I am on mat leave - otherwise I would have gone nuts by now. Full respect to SAHMs who have to put up with this sort of thing without any respite from it.

I've been doing the ignoring the tantrums bit and trying to reward good behaviour (but there has been precious little of the latter lately!). Its not so easy to ignore the bad behaviour though is it? - but I know it's the right thing to do.

What was interesting this morning was I failed in my efforts to ignore a tantrum. DD was violently resisting getting dressed to go to Nursery and in full blown tantrum mode, and I'm afraid that I just snapped and yelled at her in a manic and uncontrolled way. I think dd realised she had pushed me too far because her tantrum subsided to mere sobs and she came running up to me to put her arms around me. I now however feel masses of guilt because she was also giving me a shocked look of appraisal as if to say - 'what my mum is capable of such anger!'

Will make a sterling effort when I pick her up later (15.00) to have a really nice calm afternoon / evening despite whatever bad behaviour she might throw at me. After all she's just a baby and I'm a grown up so higher standards of behaviour are required from me!

(P.S. Dot - I hope you are right, perhaps they might get better when baby arrives and their worst fears when realised turn out not to be too bad)

we had some 'challenging' (!) behaviour just before/after dd2 was born (dd1 was 2yr 10 mths) and the nursery were fantastic in helping us to get her back on track. it involved giving her lots of positive praise/attention for every little thing she did and trying not to focus on the negatives. it worked surprisingly quickly, but she was a bit older than your dd. have you read the secret of raising happy children? steve biddulph talks about this a lot - the 'bad' behaviour attracting attention from the grown-ups therefore you do it even more, spiralling into even worse behaviour. she probably senses in you that something big is about to happen and picks up on your tension too. now our dd2 is just coming up to a year dd1 is going back to some of this behaviour and I think it's because her sister is now mobile & therefore a bit of a threat good luck!

Handlemecarefully, we all snap at our kids - dont feel bad. Just remember to apologise when you calm down, my eldest appreciates being treated like a grown up.

hmc, i have just had the morning from hell with my 4 year old too. like you every single thing turned into a wingy tantrum and i mean everything he must of had at least 10 by in the first hour and i have to say that i completely flipped, shouting and screaming at him like a banshee, i am going to blame it on the hormones!!!!. Even resorted to the time out step whilst guilt overlook me and i caved in. Same reaction from my ds masses of little sobs, desparately hugging me and needing to be close to me!!! so dont feel so bad perhaps this is the way they need to learn how far they can push us. I think also pregnancy and impending arrival of new one makes us a little short fused and they sense it. Unfortunately i think it is a fact of life and is in some ways a little preparation for what it will be like for them when another one arrives to take our real time and energy. Keep your chin up and try to keep smiling

Sounds like mine at that age. Suprised that midwife was taken aback by tantrum. Is she only used to unborn babies perhaps? Really feel for you being pregnant too. The car situation can drive you to despair. I did once drive off with DS unsecured in his seat. Not one of my proudest moments.......

I don't think it's bad that you snapped at your dd, hmc. Yes, no doubt it shocked her, but as long as it doesn't become a standard response that she knows she can trigger whenever she wants to, it's just another aspect of Mummy. If our children never see us upset, how are they to understand that it's normal to become upset and that adults also have emotions? How you handle yourself in your anger, and how you calm yourself down and are still her loving mummy despite everything, are important lessons for her.

good advice pretty candles, it has made me feel better about my emotional tirades with my little one of late.

HMC, just found this thread - how did your evening go?

Does anyone else think that maybe toddlers and babies can actually smell the pre-childbirth hormones, and physiologically react to the 'threat' of the new baby? I sometimes wonder...

I think you have it there Zebra. My 3.2 yo has started being difficult recently. Some of it is related to my pregnancy and limitations (eg causing trouble over going upstairs because he's figured I don't want to have to carry him). But it goes beyond this - strops at nursery, throwing things, not sharing etc.

i think you are totally right and when i was just 3 months pregnant i was talking to a mum who is also a doctor and she was saying that they instictively know and start to be that much more demanding and clinging when you are pregnant i remember trying to shake my 4 year old off my leg while she was saying this

To everyone here, thanks. I'm just over 7 months preg with 31/2 yr old daughter (cant quite figure out the d, dd code yet - obviously not very bright as well as pregnant!). She has previously been complete joy and I found it easy to be lovely mummy. Now everything is not fair, you do it, winge, moan, complain. I'm completely exhausted and hate myself for handling it so badly. I seem to snap so quickly and can hear it in my voice. I so want to stay neutral and calm and know she's not happy too with how we're going. Terrified it's going to last right thro baby and on and on. Ended up in tears tonight when she tossed aside my easter present and said she didnt like it. Pathetic..she's too little to grin and bear it. Still good to read all your things and resolve to try to keep calm, not hate me or her and see it as a phase...