8yr old will not settle to sleep for hours, Help!

[Jaynerae]

My friend has a eight year old DS, for months now he has been difficult at bed time. She does all the usual routine, but he keeps getting up, coming down, saying he can't sleep, the slightest noise disturbs him, he lays in bed and says he is trying to get to sleep but just can't. She has tried sticker charts, withdrawing playstation playing time, stopping pocket money - all to no avail - she works full time and is at the end of her tether - she is tired - he is tired and they are both very miserable. Any one any fresh ideas I can give to her, would realy like to be able to give her some suggestions when we meet for lunch next week. She is very down.

Is he having nightmares? Does she have blackout blinds/curtains? What about instead of stopping things, she rewards him in the morning with something like, er, pancakes for breakfast or a comic? Something he will get that day, rather than a sticker on a chart?

I would hve suggested stopping pocket money first but obviously that hasn't worked.

What time is he going to bed?

Going to bed at 8pm, but she lets him read for a bit. Not having nightmares, as once he is asleep - he stays asleep all night - he just can't seem to get to sleep. Good idea about rwearding him though instead of taking things away. Praising the good and ignoring the bad isn't it - I think she has lost sight of that as she is so stressed with him. Thanks JRM.
Any one else got any more suggestions - I'd love to hear from you!

Many thanks.

Sounds like he's having trouble switching off - how about more of a routine in the evenings - a relaxing bath (I know that may be a difficult concept for an 8yr old boy - but you can get some bubble baths that have lavender in), Possibly making sure that what he's reading isn't too exciting/scary. Maybe even some lavender oil in his room (one of those things that goes over the light bulb, so he can't reach it?) to help him relax?

Hmm, I don't think punishment is a good route at all for this. He's having a hard time unwinding. Worrying about the punishment he's about to have can't help!

Bath and blackout curtains are a good idea. A white noise machine might help.

Alternatively, is yoga or simlar an option? To teach him self-calming techniques?

What is his diet like? I'd avoid sugary things anywhere near bedtime.

Is he stressed about things? What else is going on in his life? Does his mum get a chance to spend any positive time with him?

Growing boys are like puppy dogs - they need lots of exercise

DS (5.5) slips in and out of doing this

I've found sometimes I have to explain to him how to get to sleep

so I go up and talk to him in a very gentle voice .. he lies down and we talk about making a dream

he has to shut his eyes and then we try to get him to picture it .. his choice whatever he wants to dream about

I give him a few pointers .. where are you?, what can you see / smell / feel?

then I tell him gently to keep thinking about that and he'll fall asleep

HTH

oh and we also have this breathing thing we do when he needs to relax (also works with strops)

deep breath in .. and blow it out for 5

x 3

The exercise then bubble bath routine works for us.

Also, story CDs work really well. DS2 is 8 and listens to them every night. Helps him switch his brain off from all those inventions he's planning to do tomorrow etc!

Sometimes I read to him instead for 20 minutes or so instead, which is lovely as we get a cuddle and a chat too.

DS2 is quite a nervous child, so has a mobile with sparkly lights that we leave on until he's fallen asleep.

Doesn't sound like your friend's DS is being naughty, just that he has trouble switching his brain off and falling asleep.

I know it's several decades out of date now, but I used to struggle to go to sleep from a very young age - my mum can still remember creeping upstairs to her own bed (having said goodnight to me hours earlier), and me chirpily saying "night mum" as she walked past the door!

She gave up trying to force me into an earlier sleep/bed time and just accepted that I was naturally a night owl - not ideal for the early school mornings I know. But I did have a fairly strict wind-down routine involving a quiet bathtime (no thrashing and splashing), and also a mug of Horlicks once I was in bed.

I cannot imagine how detrimental it would have been if she had tried to punish me for it, or turned it into an 'issue'. Having said that, I struggled with it for years - until I was well into my twenties, when I eventually seemed to just 'grow out of it'. I always slept well once had dropped off though.

Ladies - thanks for all this. I agree with a lot of what you have said. She really does get wound up by it all - and tells him she is not happy with him - which upsets him and I think they have got locked in this circle of behaviour now and need help in getting out of it. I agree with NQC and JN- he is not doing it on purpose - he genuinely seems like he can't switch off and go to sleep - I have had him stay at my house for a sleepover with my son and he is the same here (OK sleepovers are exciting - but not when your mate is already fast asleep!)Twiglett - I'll get her to try your technique - sounds good -calming yet positive.
They don't have blackout blinds - so I'll suggest that.

As for what is going on in his life - well that is the tricky one because I wonder if this is the route cause - She hasn't lived with her DS's dad since he was a toddler. She has had a couple of partners along the way - but not lived with them. 2 years ago met new man - he eventually moved in - and they got married recently. I asked if this started when DH moved in - she said no before so she did not think there was a link. But DH has his children that form previous relationship stay every weekend with them - so I think her DS has had a lot to accept and adjust to recently. I don't think any of this worries him - I think he is happy enough with new family but I do wonder if there is a link. He is a quite sensitive boy who needs lots of love and cuddles and he has been her world for some years - perhaps he feels that a bit now?

Loomer - I agree with you - I think he is a night owl - and I don't think the way she has handled things has helped, but she genuinely thinks she is doing right - and genuinely wants him to be happy.

I'll piece together all you suggestions and give them to her next week. I feel for them both as they are lovely people and I do want them both to be happy. Breaks your heart to think of him dreading bedtime.

Appreciate all your comments and help - maybe I can get her on to mumsnet aswell - I have only recently joined but think it is a wonderful source of help inspiration and support.
Thank you all for your time and ideas.

My ds (9) is like this, and indeed sometimes worries so much about not getting to sleep that it is that which keeps him awake. Sometimes listening to music helps - usually Mozart, but it has to be the same piece repeated. Very occasionally he sneaks into our bed and is able to fall asleep there. We have ended up agreeing that he goes upstairs at a reasonable time and as long as he is relaxing in his bed then he is getting rest and we are all happy. He reads, draws, listens to music quietly and eventually falls asleep - much less stress all round.

Why doesn't she just let him read until he falls asleep for a bit? OK he may be a bit tired in the morning but it might be better if he finds his own pattern rather than trying to fall asleep when he's not quite ready.

My dd (9) is often still reading at 9.30 or 10 and i wake her at 7.30 if she's not already up (but she usually is).

TBH, providing my kids are in bed and quiet I don't really care what time they nod off!