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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

BEDTIME PLEASE HELP!!!!

51 replies

tillytup · 11/09/2006 21:17

PLEASE HELP! my 4 yr old has always gone to bed with the nightlight on and a story read to her since 18months. In the last 8 days she has been throwing the most almighty tantrums. I've been returning her to bed without making eye contact or talking to her- as advised by many tv programs. This led to her biting , kicking , punching and trying to strangle me.as soon as i walk away from her bedside she's back up. In the day she is an angel at night, a devil. I have tried asking her what is wrong and why she behaves sooooo badly at night. she screams "don't leave me, don't go out."
I have NEVER left her in the house alone and explained to her that i never would. I really am at my wits end. nothing works. please help

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Original poster

tillytup · 11/09/2006 21:55

i must admit i don't give in and i can be quite harsh as far as rewards go. you don't earn it, you don't get it. i'm not one to give in. when she starting banging the glass panels on my living room door with a snow globe i made her sit on the sofa with the telly off and main light on. i read a book and ignored her wailling

OP posts:

MarsLady · 12/09/2006 13:29

Book in post!

Remember.... no REWARDING for staying up. Let me know when the book arrives and remember.... it'll take about a week but the results will make you smile.

BellaVictoria · 12/09/2006 15:31

I hope you don't mind, I know you're waiting for the book...but we had our same old routine, made sure her room was safe, we locked her door and she got out of bed...cried for almost an hour, screaming, yelling, banging on the door.....and the complete quietness!!!! She got exhausted, and crawled back in bed by herself! Slept all night....and hasn't had any other wild nights. Sounds cruel, and it was hard for us to hear her so upset........but something needed to give!

Nanou1 · 12/09/2006 16:12

hello there. would love to know how you get on once trying the book. dd tries it on sometimes. children will try on whatever and test our boundaries. although sometimes it would be much easier to give in; i think ultimately they need to know who the boss is ; ie parents must stick to their guns and as importantly stick together. should your dp not agree with the way you deal with it, i hope he does not say so in front of your child. feeling for you.... had problems last night and its no fun...

tartanchatterbox · 12/09/2006 16:58

Hi there - we had the internal handle off and listened to her scram and rant for ages. I only went in if she was getting distressed. We teamed it with the star chart for her. On the third night she got her star.

The trick with the star charts is to give them easily achievable tasks along with the one you really want them to do. They must complete the whole chart to get a reward.

kimi · 12/09/2006 17:20

Good advice from everyone espically cooeroo, but i think you really really need to get to the botton of why she does not want you to leave her.
Has she been babysat by anyone who may have let her watch something unsuitable on T.V?
(I know my SIL let a little boy she babysay watch horror films and he mother said he was distraught for weeks,)
There has to be a reason she is behaving so badly if she was a "good" bedtimer befor.

FloatingOnTheMed · 12/09/2006 17:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tartanchatterbox · 12/09/2006 17:52

We don't have to do anything anymore at bedtime. She loves to snuggle down after a story, and she says "no shut the door" religiously - (which at first broke our hearts). She says it with a playful lilt to her voice as it has become routine. She has a tape player (nursery rhymes) or a classical CD.

Once it started getting dark, she started waking in the night (11:30pm) really upset, I think because it is dark. We live in north Scotland so it was rarely dark.

Have you though it might be the night that bothers her? It is that time of year...

The really simple solution is that she's started back to school and is tired. My four year old has been staying in her room playing in bed with toys until 9 or 10 pm. She's been so stimulated at school that she is finding it hard to wind down. Week 3 (scotland) and we've cracked her sleepin routine and now it's 8pm when she's out cold.

Sunnysideup · 12/09/2006 17:53

I agree with cod, she is overtired with starting school - definitely bring her bedtime forward. And I totally agree too with laying next to her or sitting in her room while she goes off; I'm not saying this has to go on for ever, just for this time which is so tough for her; she is making big progress not crying at school, and the whole thing is very much of an effort for them. She just can't cope with bedtimes at the moment, it's that one thing too many.

I also think rewards, stars etc may not be effective because she isn't sounding 'in control' of this at all, it's too much at the mo. She won't have the ability to rein in her behaviour in order to get a star or whatever because this isn't a choice between good or naughty, she sounds like she is simply at the end of her abilities at the mo with school, letting you leave her at night is just too much.

It shouldn't go on for too long I bet. Also the deal is if you do her the kindness of staying with her, she MUST lay down and rest. No fun, no playing if you are in the room - all you are offering is your re-assuring presence.

There, how to agree with what cod said but in a much more wordy way!

tartanchatterbox · 12/09/2006 18:12

I would take a book and camp outside her door. (A soppy romance novel - you always know the storyline so you're never bothered by an interruption and it de-stresses you.)

Thats what we do if we have a relapse . Easy to return them to bed. (Rapid Return)Be prepared to do this for 3-5days. (videa tape any programmes you usually watch)

Try not to get cross - we all know females can't sleep if someone is cross!

Reassuring presence I suppose for them too, Bunny.(Although, I think lying with them is not such a good idea. Perhaps the reward should be after the behaviour that you want, not before?)

Lashings of praise when she gets in her bed! We try to make up a story of a little girl called...(personalise it)who falls alseep and into a fairy land etc etc. We tell it snuggled down with the light off, so she's not stimulated.

Remind her how happy you were when she did sleep that one night out of the seven, and show her the reward she'll get if she stays in bed.
give her the sticker the next day, or tell her that she can't get it because she didn't stay in bed.

buktus · 12/09/2006 19:09

isnt locking the door a bit harsh

tartanchatterbox · 12/09/2006 19:26

We always stayed outside the door. And we never let her get upset (sad). It was just a temper tantrum.

You could easily use a stairgate.

What are the children fighting anyway? It's not you is it? They are just really really tired, and restraining them won't help. Making them stay in their rooms (the rope trick) won't hurt them. Not like thrashing around and getting hit and kicked and scratched.They give up if their efforts are useless, then they forget aboutit, and end up in a better routine.

I do agree, itt does seem cruel, and it is if you have never said no to a child. But we strap them in their carseats every day (and often struggle), but it is for their safety and don't think twice about it.

buktus · 12/09/2006 19:34

agree to a certain amount, i strap my children in their car seats for their safety and also because it is against the law not to do so, i cant compare that to the room thing - i have always managed to calm my kids down before turning to such ways but in the situation i suppose anything would go, shutting children in rooms and things just sounds a bit much to me but thats my opinion, i will prob offend some one now doubt

FloatingOnTheMed · 12/09/2006 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

tillytup · 12/09/2006 23:31

tonight i sat and asked her what she wanted to do as a treat tomoz if she stays in her bed. we talked about the fun we'd have tomoz and she seemed really happy about it. took about 20 seconds for her to get out of her bed and start screaming.although when i explained i was disappionted because we are not going out on our treat tomorrow because she broke the rules of our plan she looked gutted. she went to sleep within the hour instead of three. we tried a stairgate on her door and she climbed up and ove in no time. i must say i don't agree with a rope or locking the door, i just can't do it.

OP posts:

Original poster

tillytup · 12/09/2006 23:33

she is not over tired. she has only been at school for 2hours in the afternoon for a total of 4 days so far. this started after a constant bed routine of 7 pm in bed. she gets up between 7am -8am. i feel that this is def enough sleep for her

OP posts:

Original poster

tillytup · 12/09/2006 23:37

in answer to the babysitter/tv question. nobody has looked after her for me recently and we definately do not let her watch inappropriate tv. the only people that care for her occasionaly other than me and my husband is my mom or sister and that was over two months ago

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goreousgirl · 13/09/2006 00:09

I Like the Little Angels programme advice from Tanya Bryer - teh Nightlite Fairy - it's a good one to start them off back into a routine. Calm bath - lovely calm play with mummy - story in bed then switch nightlite on - and the Nightlite Fairy checks she's sleeping and will leave a present in her room for her for when she wakes in the morning...Good for early wakers as well - no pressie if they wake too early!!

yawningmonster · 13/09/2006 04:58

Ok I havent read all of the thread so somebody else may have suggested these ideas.

During the day make a deal with her eg:
When you go to bed tonight would you like me to sit beside you until you sleep or would you like me to check on you after 1min/5min whatever. If she says sit with her say ok I will do that if you go to sleep nicely, if not then I will leave you to go to sleep alone, if she chooses check on her again state some rules like you will return her if she gets out of bed and she will have to wait 2min/6mins (longer than planned) Over a week or so slowly wean her so taht you are sitting in the room but not beside her or that you check and reassure her after longer periods. Ignore all other behaviour and return get ups with no interaction. If she breaks the deal then put in place the mentioned consequences. It sounds like she needs reassurance for whatever reason and that other methods are not working. HTH.

Original poster

tillytup · 13/09/2006 20:41

i have had the most amazing day! i took her to the dentist today, she has been going for a long time and always got upset and refused to open her mouth. when we went today after 2mins of crying she turned and opened her mouth!!!! we had to go to the shops for a big girl pressie of course. then we agreed that if she went to bed well we'd go out after school tomorrow picking conkers (as you do!). she went to bed, had a story and went to sleep!!!!!! its a miracle. i'm waiting to see if she wakes up and comes down still but i don't care at the mo even if she does.

OP posts:

MarsLady · 13/09/2006 21:52

Did the book arrive?

Well done with getting her to sleep, though I'm not convinced of the long term benefits of treats for sleeping... however, it worked tonight so well done. Hope the book helps. Do read through the relevent chapters. I read bits and thought...nope nope not that, I don't do that, it's not that... then I realised that actually it was some of that and I decided to give it a go.

Really wishing you lots of success!

weblet71 · 14/09/2006 09:20

Not sure if you have solved this problem....but I had exactly the same issue....it was solved by breaking the routine as I went to stay with my parents and my Dad put her to bed for a few nights and it broke the pattern of behaviour for each evening, perhaps you could try hubby putting her to bed for a few nights? If this is not an option then I would suggest having an extended bedtime routine to make her feel safe and secure. Start after dinner with some calm activity (reading for example), followed by a long bath and then some time reading to her in her room prior to putting her down to sleep. You should say that you will be back in 20 minutes to check on her, when you come back after 20 minutes if she is awake, tell her you will be back in 40 mins and so on....this will reassure her that you are still around and will be there for her should she need you - and that she doesn't need to cry or scream. You could use a timer if she is not comfortable just taking your word for when you will be back. I know it sound like a lot of work - but a few nights of that and it should stop.

Original poster

tillytup · 14/09/2006 12:32

marslady, the book arrived this morning, many thanx, i'll return it a.s.a.p .the pressent was for her first ever sucessful dentist trip, we go out to the park or cook for bedtime behaviour treats.

OP posts:

Original poster

tillytup · 14/09/2006 19:59

2nd night and she's stayed in bed and gone to sleep!!!!

OP posts:

buktus · 14/09/2006 20:23

and not a locked door in sight well done

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