6yo DS2 said he hates himself - should I be concerned?

[MogTheForgetfulCat]

He didn't say it in a flouncy, attention-seeking way. We have been having issues with him going to bed and deliberately waking up / winding up DS3 (with whom he shares a room) for months now.

DS2 has reacted very badly to our response (which is to take him downstairs and try to ignore any bad behaviour until he is ready to go back up and go to bed properly) and is really kicking off every night - he gets very manic and silly/giggly. It's infuriating, as it then feels like he is deliberately winding us up.

Tonight, I'd had enough and lost my temper with him - we ended up shouting at each other, as I am just so fed up with it, and have no idea why he is doing it. I also feel bad for DS1 (who gets no attention while all this is going on) and DS3 (when he gets woken up by it - he is 3.3 and no longer napping, so needs sleep). I was asking him why he kept on doing this and he said he didn't know and that sometimes he hates himself for it. I suggested that DH should put him to bed so that we (DS2 and me) don't end up rowing with each other, and his face just crumpled - it wasn't meant to be suggested as a punishment!

I found it upsetting to hear him talk about himself that way. and he became very distressed. DS1 has sometimes said he hates me when I am not letting him do precisely what he wants, but never himself. It doesn't seem to me the sort of thing a 6yo should be saying - but maybe I am overreacting? Any thoughts / tips?

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me there's a difference between him saying "he hates himself" in general, which is a bit worrying and maybe should be investigated with a professional, and "he hates himself for doing something " which is maybe just a slightly strong way of saying he knows it's naughty and annoying to be waking his brother up and he doesn't really know why he's doing it, in which case maybe you "just" need to get to the bottom of the attention-seeking behaviour.
Sorry that's not much help.

I agree with nobodysawmedoit, I don't think you have to worry about that comment at this stage. Could you try a behaviour modification strategy, e.g. a sticker for every night he doesn't wake up DS3 with a reward when he has 5 stickers? Also does he have bedtime routine that calms him down before he has to go to bed?

I agree too. Ds is 6yo and comes out with that sort of thing. He's quite capeable within 5 minutes of telling me both that he's the worst in the school at something and the best at the same thing too.
Also at that age I don't think they can reason why they do something, perhaps expecting too much in his thought process.

I would question taking ds2 downstairs when he's being the problem though. Mine would all have loved that, even if I'd expected them to sit silently and not do anything. They'd have seen it as getting one over because they were down later, having attention etc. It would have defintiely been seen as a reward.
I'd be more inclined to either let ds3 fall asleep in my bed, then move him across later, or take ds3 downstairs and cuddle them on the sofa.

What we have done with ours when they shared a room is the younger goes to bed, and the older gets to read in our bed until the younger is asleep, and then the older goes across to their bed. If the older wakes the younger by inappropriate noise, then the next night they go to bed at the same time and are straight off to sleep.

Six year olds usually have a very high opinion of themselves, I would be concerned about a 6 year old saying that he hates himself.
You need to work on his self esteem and emotional strength. There are lots of books out there.

Thanks for these replies. I am worried about his self-esteem, as he is an emotional mess at the moment - very touchy and teary, and seeming to think that nobody (at home) likes him . We have been reiterating that we do like and love him, but that we don't like this recent behaviour - maybe that distinction is not getting through?

Tonight I let him go to sleep in our bed, but that was only semi-successful. He is against sharing with either DS1 or DS3, but when I pointed out that the only solution is to move house and have more bedrooms, he burst into tears and said he doesn't want to move as he would miss our house! He has also been in tears lately at the prospect of moving to Year 2 in September, because he will miss his teachers - so there seems to be some anxiety about the idea of change. Not sure why, pretty sure life has been quite stable... I have double- and triple-checked and as far as I can tell all is well at school with friends etc. He has always been clingy, but this has got noticeably worse lately.

Am going to see how things go - I think if we can remain calm and not allow things to escalate into a row, maybe he will come through it in due course. My poor boy .

Can DS1 share with DS3 for a while?

Sounds like attention seeking behaviour - maybe he's having a touch of 'middle child syndrome' and is feeling that his brothers get more attention than him? How about suggesting some 1 on 1 time with you and DS2 this weekend, doing something he enjoys, if he can be sensible at bedtime for the rest of this week?

Could ds1 and ds3 share?
Dh shared with his youngest brother, leaving his middle brother to have a room on his own, as that made the most sense in terms of sleep timing etc. You may also find it easier then as ds3 should be asleep before ds1 needs to come up.

These are all good ideas, thanks! I will think about DS1 sharing with DS3 - he has a bunk, so it would be possible, and might be less of an intrusion for DS1, as DS3 would just be asleep when DS1 goes to bed. It is in the attic, though, so am a bit worried about the stairs as DS3 quite often wakes in the night and needs to be resettled - he doesn't make a lot of noise, so that is not the issue, but I would worry a bit about the stairs. Will have a think...

Tonight was better - DS2 fell asleep in our bed again, was much less manic than he has been on all other nights. Still quite touchy, but my staying calm really helps, so will carry on with that. Have made more of an effort than usual to really spend quality time with them - with a bit of a focus on DS2 - after school, and have promised to play Monopoly with him after school tomorrow .

Bit calmer now, and think this has just been a fairly protracted manifestation of middle-child syndrome as tumbletumble said, rather than anything more worrying going on. Blimey. Thanks again.