How would you cope with this behaviour? Long, sorry.

[itwilldomebad]

DS is 3.5. He is funny, quick, confident, beautiful and sociable.

He is also incredibly frustrating, seems to lose his temper at the drop of a hat, and at the moment I just don't know what to do with him. DH have never argued so much as we have about DS2. DH will follow my lead with him so we are consistent but DH thinks I am too soft.

Today was a typical example. It has been raining most of the day, stopped at three and I took my three boys to the park, DD is away.

They had a good run around etc, I gave a 5 min warning, then a minute warning, the said right time to go.
3yo started running towards the top of the hill away from where we were going. I said no DS time to go. He carried on down the hill, I walked after him asking him to come back he just climbed on a bench and started marching up and down it.
I reached him, bent down to his level to speak to him. He closed his eyes threw his head back and screamed until I stopped talking. I told him screaming at me was not acceptable, he shouted no and tried to run off.
I took his hand and said it was time to go.
I started walking up the hill with him. I was holding his hand firmly but not squeezing him. He shouts at me let go, get off your hurting. I try and distract him with a squirrel, he drops to the ground to try and make me let go. He bites my hand and smacks me. I tell him we don't smack and bite, it hurts.
He screams, smacks and shouts all the way home. Keeps dropping to the ground and kicking me. Keeps trying to push the buggy into the road. Every time I try to talk to him he just closes his eyes and screams at the top of his voice.
We get home he takes his coat off, tells me he is happy now asks for a biscuit please. I am frazzled by this point, he asks me why I am said and hugs me.

This is a regular occurrence. He never listens when out and about, always runs off. I try and talk to him calmly but he always just shuts his eyes and screams at me.
I tried reins but he won't walk with them on, he sits and screams or crawls like a dog.
He is just as bad in the house, he hurts all the other three DC. My 2 year old has grasped sharing but DS2 will not share. Whatever anyone is playing with he wants it.

I feel like such a failure with him. I am a qualified TA and Nursery Nurse, my other DC are all well behaved. I know all the things I should do but DS is just immune to them. I try so hard not to lose my temper with him I get jaw ache from clenching my teeth and counting to ten so often. I just can't see a way out.

If you've got this far thanks for reading.

How would I cope? . too much .

I don't drink

Google and watch/listen to Louis CK's sketch "my3 year old is a 3 year old"...I have a feeling it will resonate!

No specific advice but just an advocate of consistency. Keep up with what you're doing and ride the mofo out.

As everyone keeps telling me with my bottle/sleep refusing 4 month old...this too shall pass!

Oh, and is strongly suggest taking up drinking :) .

God that sounds hugely stressful. Much

With the benefit of not actually being there, I would ask what was the consequence of his bad behaviour? He didn't want to leave and so threw a massive paddy which escalated, but it doesn't seem like there was any actual explaining of what would happen if he didn't do what he was asked, just that you told him he was behaving badly.

If I had been in the same situation and my three year old had run off, when I had caught him there would be a resulting consequence/punishment which for us is that he doesn't get to run about but has to go in the buggy and hold hands at all times which he hates. Do you have a double buggy so that you could use it as a threat for a while? It would also mean that you can disengage from the following tantrum because he is strapped in a buggy safe and well (if cross!) and you avoid any further hitting, biting etc.

If leaving places is a regular issue I would also try flat out bribes, in that he gets a biscuit or whatever to eat as you are walking home. Not ideali know but can break the habit of them having a meltdown whenever you try to leave somewhere.

Every child is different and has different stages where they are more demonic challenging. Don't beat yourself up. Every parent has had to do huge walk of shame with a child over their shoulder at some point!

Urgh don't know, you're way more qualified than me in the child rearing stakes. I do have a 3.5yo ds and he is difficult but not with the screaming and biting or running off. It's definitely a difficult age, so much is a battle for independence. Wanted to offer and sympathy but I see you're on the !

Can you comedown like a ton of bricks on exceptionally bad behaviour like you describe? I had an incident with ds where he had such a huge tantrum (due to tiredness) that dh had to come get us (even though I was in my car too) needed back up as ds refused to get in car seat and he's a big strong lad and I was heavily pregnant with back problems) we confiscated favourite toys for that.

We also reward good behaviour with sticker chart leading to rewards, but it he's yet toget a sticker for doing what he's told when he's told to do it!

Nothing of any real help I'm afraid but after 3 quite "easy" DD's my 3 y old Grandson is the same as your DS - Oh how nice it is sometimes when its time to hand him back!! sorry I know you don't have the option He's gorgeous, funny, loving, scrumpious and law abiding most of the time but when something happens that he doesn't like or agree with such as simply the library book needs to go back to the library or we are putting the playdoh away he wails, he screams, he cries, he bites, he kicks, he 'no' like me and ALL of the tricks in my mammy/nana repetoire dont make a ha'peth of difference! I am finding at the moment that ignoring him and bursting into loud song (opera style) helps!! not trying this in the garden centre or the supermarket though. My Mother's saying This too, will pass - springs to mind and hopefully it will!

As porquoi says leaving places is an issue for that age group. I keep chocolate coins in my bag to persuDe him out of fun places. In case of emergencies etc .

I would be tempted to break down the problem into different stages for this particular child.

I wonder if he doesn't listen because he is completely and utterly absorbed in what he is doing (running) and feels as if he is interrrupted. Obviously, though, you have to get home from the park (and having had 3 under two years, I know that frustration when one runs off and you end up having to chase and pin them down, causing them to start behaving as if you are attacking them)

Instead of teaching him to listen to you, which he isn't interested in for its own sake (because running is more exciting) you have to give him some reason to stop running, the best reward he can think of, which he associates with listening to you. And you have to build up to that perhaps so that he begins to think that stopping is more interesting and listening to you is more rewarding than running.

Could you start by mentioning that you have something in the buggy which they will get on the way home ( a little surprise not necessarily new - I am imagining something like a cheese string or one of those paper whistle things you find in a cracker) Not because you are trying to bribe him but because this particular child has NO ASSOCIATION with stopping to listen to you and you are trying to get him to have a pleasurable sense of the reward that listening to you will bring. It is called ABA where you break desired actions down into small steps to be rewarded with praise and attention, even if most children do those things without needing any such praise and attention.

He clearly notices when you are sad, so he might also respond very well to the idea that something makes you very happy. In a very practical way.

You could start small, in a home environment when you want him to do something he doesn't usually want to do, perhaps putting his plate away in the sink by seeing how he responds to praise. So more, well done for putting your plate in the sink instead of be sure to put your plate in the sink I don't want to remind yo
I suppose it is about reframing the idea in the child's mind so they think it is worth doing. Rather than assuming they should just do what you say, because it is reasonable and sensible to YOU.

I am so completely sympathetic to your frustration, just that now my children are older, I can sort of see how the impasses took hold. My dd was immensely stubborn and I just got crosser and crosser with her, and never really evolved any successful strategy except to think she was being difficult. I wish I had tried to break it down into smaller steps and see things from her point of view.

And you are NOT a failure, you are a heroine for getting three little boys to the park and back alive! Every trip to the park felt a bit like a safari with the windows down on the jeep, in our house

Thanks for the replies.

The having to hold my hand was the consequence. There wasn't really anything else as it was tea, bath, bed when we got home.

I had to stop using the double buggy as he would just end up hurting DS3 instead of me. I suppose I could try putting him in the buggy and letting DS3 walk.

I just feel like each hideous phase that passes just makes way for a new worse one. He had colic and reflux as a newborn, he didn't sleep well and still doesn't, once he could crawl he just spent all day destroying the house it got worse once he could walk, I left toddlers as he just smacked and bit all the other children, he stopped eating well and restricted his diet to fruit and salami.

I have read pretty much every parenting book going. I ask friends and family.

He really needs one to one all the time, but I can't give him that.

Sorry x posted with a few then, just catching up. I really appreciate the advice.

Swanhildapirouetting just to clarify do you mean I should say well done for putting the plate in the sink before he has done it?

I do try and see things from his point of view, I feel sorry for him I because he seems to spend so much time bring angry and frustrated.
He can be so much fun and he is so enthusiastic about things.

google Sensory Processing Disorder. Just in case anything rings a bell. It may not.

I mentioned ABA because it is one of the ways you help children on the autistic spectrum (however mildly) do things they don't want to do, possibly because of their sensory processing needs.

So for example a child runs off because they are trying to get feedback from the physical sensation of running, but at the same time is hyper sensitive to you telling him what to do (you said he screamed when you started talking) Hitting and biting other children is often not aggression but anxiety at being overwhelmed, or desire for some sensory feedback from the interaction (however bizarre that sounds)

Yes, I would praise him even if he shows the slightest interest in putting the plate near the sink.

Consequences often don't work so well with children who have sensory processing needs because they (the needs I mean) are much more powerful than the consequences are.

You paint quite a clear picture of a child with sensory processing issues in your most recent post. Out of Sync child is a good book btw.

Sensory processing just means you are hyper sensitive to the world around you or sometimes so focussed on something that you cannot tune into anything else. So sharing a toy might seem the end of the world. You are trying to regulate yourself in ways that to adults or other children might seem discordant or unreasonable.

Thanks Swanhilda I will do that. Sorry not to reply sooner I fell asleep

Maybe having a clearer consequence and reward system may help? Reward chart and you confiscation may work.
or you could try and give him more responsibility by giving him choices. Only 2 both of which result in the same final outcome but helps him feel more in control of events.
e.g get down to his level and say - we are leaving the park now should we March this way around the park or jump this way (and point in a slightly different direction).
Or give him a job? A really important bag to carry with small treats inside to share when they get home if they walk nicely.
its all easier said than done though. Good luck and remember it won't last forever.

Sounds exactly like my 3 yr old. We stopped all walking and would only use the buggy however as a big lad, he now tips and rocks it over if I "help" him in!!!! He will let me use his backpack on reins now as he prefers walking to the buggy, but it took a fair few weeks of me refusing all walking

We offer a lot of choices ie ... do you want to sit in the car or shall I help you. As an independent chap, he knows to do it voluntarily or I will help!!!!

Thanks. I struggle with reward systems for him because he will often refuse the reward.
He took ages to potty train despite knowing when he was going to wee or poo from 18 months(he would run off to hide behind the Toybox). We would offer a small treat from a huge jar for just sitting on the potty or toilet just as we did with the older DC but he would just say "no thank you" and wet/soil his pants.
I feel like I can't use consequences like leaving the park early or not going in the first place as it isn't fair on my other children. It doesn't seem right that they have to suffer negative consequences for his behaviour.

Praising him is also difficult he often shrieks and runs away or tells me to stop talking if he is praised.

Giving simple choices does work well at home but not often outside. I find me 'forgetting' how to do things works at home too e.g "let's get dressed, where do your pants go? On your head or your arm?" Works better than "put your pants on".

Sorry this all sounds so negative.

Swanhilda I have looked at sensory processing disorder. Thank you for pointing it out, while I am not sure about DS2 he does tick a lot of boxes he seems to be able to switch it on and off. Pre-school for example were amazed when I mentioned I was struggling with him. His teacher said he is just one big ball of enthusiasm and he seems to have no problems with listening and following instructions.
DS1 though, oh my goodness. I have worried about him from toddlerhood for totally different reasons. He just sat and span things pretty much all day from 12 months to about 2.5 years. He always keeps his hands as fists, he hates having his hair brushed, nails cut, winces at the shower. He hates Tuesdays as they have a different teacher, he hides upstairs when we have more than one visitor, I could go on and on.
A couple of his teachers have commented on how he seems daydreamy and often needs reminding of what to do despite appearing to hear instructions.i have often looked at ASD but somethings didn't seem to fit.
I am going yo read into this further.

praise can be subtle, as in engaging him, just as you have shown with your getting dressed method. It doesn't have to be lavish, it can be it helped me when you put the plate in the sink, thank you.

I have similar issues with my 3.5yr old. To me he becomes so engrossed in what he is doing so any direction away from it is a major problem half of the time. I also get the smacking, shouting & tantrums. We already had a naughty step which he absolutely hates, he gets 3mins, it's works to an extend. We recently set up a rules board emphasising rules around the main behaviour issues (we have 4 rules), each day we through them to remind him of the rules & in the evening we go through them again. If he breaks one of the rules i.e running off when we are out it goes on board as a naughty day. At the end of week if he had had more than 3 naughty days we take away a big toy like a bike or scooter & then he has to have a full week of gud days before he gets it back. We do also recognise a gud week with trip to a bigger park/ farm/ leisure pool etc. I find it difficult when all adults in his live are not on the same page & I feel as though I'm constantly giving out to him about his behaviour but it will get easier - so I have been told. ??

I think little children love structure, but they don't have the ability to plan so far ahead. Time out is overrated as a way of dealing with these issues. It is much better to talk through the plan before it goes awry.

I also think that if you have more than one child, and one child is not listening or playing up, it is quite difficult to start singling them out for bad behaviour, without causing a whole further set of tantrums.

I so understand what OP means when she says she feels her child needs 1:1, and how impossible it feels to try and reason with them when you are simultaneously battling with other challenges in the form of the rest of family life. That's why telling off is never going to work because it is like firefighting. But when you are tired and stressed it is difficult to know what to put in its place. And you feel like you have failed, which adds to angry sad thoughts. It seems like such a simple thing doesn't it to take some children for a nice walk in the park, or to give them supper (which they eat, ha ha), or have them play together nicely. BUT when you think you are failing to do these seemingly simple things that mothers do (don't they? you feel you must have got it wrong. BUT it is hard to do that stuff with three children(or even four) Days out can end in tears quite often. Sometimes you feel just to have survived is a miracle.

I think even Supernanny started with the concept of involvement before she mentioned the naughty step. I think the whole idea of a Naughty Day would make a 3 year old very upset. It is too far ahead. And some 3 year olds would just become defiant.