Clashing with my family over discipline...help!

[texasrose]

Hi there,
I am miserable today because I've had a couple of issues to do with my kids and my wider family...sorry if this all comes out as a bit of a blur but I've got a pig of a headache. I've got a ds aged 2 and a half and dd aged 4. I love them both to bits and wouldn't describe either as naughty but they are both quite lively and high-energy. Discipline usually works pretty well in our home with all the usual methods like telling off, naughty seat as the most severe punishment.

Okay, firstly, we were supposed to be meeting up with my sister last week at her house, but the day before, she phoned and asked if we could meet elsewhere instead. She has 2 kids much older, aged 12 and 14. It turned out that on a previous visit, my dd had accidentally smashed an ornament in my niece's bedroom. So my niece was really upset and now my sister doesn't want my kids at her house in case anything else gets damaged. She asked if I was offended and I said no, but the honest answer was yes I was because the upshot is that we are not welcome there. I got my niece a high street voucher to say sorry for her ornament getting smashed, but that doesn't make us any more welcome.

THen yesterday I went shopping wit hthe kids and my mum and they were in high spirits which I didn'y mind but my mum obviously did and got wound up about. WE had lunch at a cafe and my mum got really upset about my ds smearing his sandwich along the table (yes, I know, yuk!) and told him off sharply for having bad table manners. It's not that I disagree with her but the way it was done made me feel totally inadequate as a mum and undermined in my discipline. It wasn't just that, the whole time I felt like she was criticising my interactions wit the kids and every decision I was making about how to treat them. It was so upsetting that I can't face the thought of going shopping with mum and the kids again. Does anyone else have problems like this and how on earth do you deal with it?

Got to run, I'll be back later to vent some more frustration.

Don't have any advice, but just wanted to give you some sympathy. I'm guessing perhaps your sisters kids were less high-energy or she has just forgotton what it was like having little ones!
Hope someone comes along with something more useful to say

its hard i know but you are happy with the way you deal with your kids so you just have to grow a second sking and not allow the opinions of others to influence how you treat your kids.

Next time you speak to your sister or the ornament is mention expalin to her that maybe your neice should have closed her bedroom door if there were things that could be broken. your chidlren are of an age where things are bound to get knocked over..not intentionally but still.

as for your mother i would tel her to mind her own and that if YOU though ythat YOUR chidls behaviour was wrong then YOU would speak to him about it.

Dont ya just love families Someones always got a criticism to make. My mum lives far away and when we go and visit (has to be a long weekend or longer because of the distance involved) we now stay in a nearby cottage. I cant stand the stress of feeling like I am being judged so shorter visits are much easier.

Last year she came to stay with us and I ended up rowing with her over her continual criticism. We have made up though.

I dont really have any advice to offer except that before you know it yours will be older and less 'demanding' and 'energetic'. Its not worth falling out over. Family is important and you never know when you may need them.

It is always a hard thing when someone anyone has any personal critcism about our parenting least of all family who we expect to support us.
To be brutally honest I think your siter is way out of order. Your DD is very young and yes things get broken, what a sahem your kids are nto as perfect as hers were at that age eh? I think your siter has forgotten what it is like to have such a young family. On one hand at least she was honest and did not make excuses but I think you should have been as honest back and said yes you are offended because if your niece was concerned about things getting broken the simple thing to do would have been to ask that your children do not go into her room so to go to the extreme and say you are not welcome is really off.
And the shopping I do not know any kids that do not get into high spirits when out shopping it is sooooo boring for them they do these things to amuse themselves. And at 2.5 I would not expect any child to have impeccable table manners they are still at the "I wonder what will happen if I do that?" stage and do not yet know that when you are fed up with your food that it is not ettiquette to smear it, throw ir pour juice on it whatever so no it is not yuck it is the behaviour of a curios toddler.

I say to hang with them, if you do not feel your childrens behaviour is a problem then sod the rest. You are not inadequate you are a caring mother who is disciplining her children HER way and is happy with how it is going.

Sorry this has got really long but I am just actually offended on your behalf here lol because I know how you feel about it being a personal attack on your parenting but all parents feel that.

Talk to your sister be honest as some of the blame does lie with either her or her niece one for allowing your DD in the room and the other for not actually presenting the problem when it happened she waited days then it turned into a big issue. And talk to your mother tell her you appreciate what she was saying but you would rather that the discipline was left up to you as you have your own methods of dealing with these situations as you are right when you are sitting right there it is undermining you.

Sotty for the long one if you actually got this far. You are a fantastic caring mum.

We sometimes have these issues with our parents - my dad seems to get esp. wound up. I keep telling myself that
1 they have forgotten what it was like when we were at home
and 2 that times have changed and what was considered reasonable/good behaviour 40ish years ago is not the sam,e as now
I also keep reminding myself that my parents are older and more tired now so their tolerance is right down.

poppies we have just been in England on our hols and had to stay a week with both sets of parents -I told dh that I couldn't do it again and if we could afford to would rent. We are moving back next year so hope I won't have to do more than the odd nihgt here and there

Hello, OK

1. Your sister is rude and unkind and over reacting imo. Small children and ornaments don't mix so you either move them or don't allow children into rooms with these things in them. It was hardly a Ming vase, presumably?

2. Well, my mum feels able to tell my children off but if I disagreed with her I'd say so. If she was sharp I wouldn't be happy.

In your position I wouldn't go shopping with your mother and kids again but then, I try to avoid children + shopping if at all possible anyway.

I agree, your sister's expectations are unrealistic and your mum is a bit out of order. I have a similar situation with my sister who has a ds the same age as mine (2). He is 'better behaved' than my ds but this is down to her telling him off him ALL the time for absolutely every little thing. Frankly it's a little stifling and at the end of the day kids will be kids. It sounds like you are striking the right balance to me

Hi Texasrose - just wanted to throw my twopence worth in. I too have been blessed with .... ummm.... spirited children - 2 boys (4yo and almost 2yo). Quite loud at our place most of the time and can get quite tense whilst out.

Like you I've had family members stick their noses in - DB told me that if my DS's were his they'd have had a 'bloody good hiding by now'. Hmmmm, my response -"yeh? look what good it's done your kid" - always in trouble at school, doesn't speak at all at home - too afraid and well, she's generally weird because of their 'discipline' methods. Mum too has said similar - I told her that it's just as well they aren't her's and that I love my children far too much to consider hurting them!! She took the hint and backed off. DB didn't speak to me for a while.
In Argos when DS2 was about 6months old, DS1 was throwing a wobbly, as he flung himself on the ground I stood over him so no-one could stand on him and let him get on with it. A miserable old biddy went past tutting saying that I shouldn't have had another if I couldn't control one. Sad to say my response was two words which were far from lady like.

Basically, it's what works for you and what you're comfortable with. They are your kids, you love them, you look after them. Stuff everyone else.

i have had that too Pfer.

some old lady walked past and said "he needs abloody good hiding"

to which i replied "i think your rude so shall i slap you then?"

rathwr shocked she said "you do and i will cal the police"

Exactly...its bloody assault so why would i do that to my son?

fattiemumma - people are so rude aren't they!

DH, DS1 and I were in Debenhams when DS was about 2yo and he'd been playing with the toys in the coffee shop and didn't want to leave so there was a bit of a struggle and he was hoisted under DH's arm and kept there while we waited for the lift. A woman right behind us made a comment about giving him a slap, to which DH make a reply along the same lines as yours, "Shall I slap you then?"

God, some people.

If they are your kids you decide how best to discipline them, and God help anyone that raises a hand to someone elses child.

texasrose,I'm going through hell at the moment because my parents are visitng from canada ,3rd week now and I'm sick of my father's disapproving tuts and glares at ds.Ds can be cheeky and rebellious and my father is very victorian in his parenting style.Children should be seen and not heard kind of thing.I have so far bitten my tongue and not caused a rift because i know they're going on wednesday and we probably won't see them for atleast 8/9 months.
I must admit if we lived close to them I would probably have it out with my father and tell him to keep his bloody tuts and disapproving looks to himself.

Haven't read everyone's responses, but here's my first thoughts.

It was an accident fgs!! - little children have accidents like this all the time. If the ornament was so special, it should have been out of reach...
And 2 1/2 yr olds don't in my experience generally have fab table manners yet, I think it's much better that they actually eat than we enforce strict rules too early - they will learn table manners through watching us adults and through calm reinforcement. I am forever telling my DS (2.3) not to throw food on the floor, esp after he's had enough and really wants the mealtime to end. This is so normal, and one day it will sink in!

Please don't let this get to you - maybe the incident with your mum affected you more because of the incident with your sister? I'd try and forget it, but if your mum makes comments again, then I'd say that you are the parent here, and you'll deal with any issue as you see fit, and you'd like your mum's support. If she doesn't agree with you, then argue about it when the children aren't there.

in view of the sandwich incident i would say to ur mother 'thank you for your offer to babysit next time i want to go shopping'
what is it with old ppl thinking they can stick their noses in?ds2 was having a hissy fit in asda a couple of weeks ago and i was ignoring him(he was in his pushchair)some old bloke started asking him what all the fuss was about so i said'what the f* has it to do with you?'he muttered that he was only trying to help so i said 'well f off and mind ur own business then!!'
i was a bit hormonal due to pregnancy,but its hard enough dealing with a screaming child without ppl trying to tell u what u should be doing about it.

Hi Texas,
Your post could have been written by me. I've just come back from a week at my mums with my three under 5's and got fed up with her carping at the kids. she shouted at them for the least thing.
My saving grace was my sister came for 2 days and said if I'd been you I would have packed up and gone by now. And also their paternal grandparents love the very bones of their 'livliness'.
Don't have an answer but can share the huge hurt and irritation of the veiled criticism of interfering with discipline. As my sister says they are just being kids but it does latch on to all our parental insecurities if someone thinks our kids are out of control. It's their problem at the end of the day and they are making it out to be our problem. I think it's just deep breaths and walk away (for example from sister in law) of situations which make you feel vulnerable.

firstly I do sympathize, as it is very hard when you feel your parenting is under scrutiny by all and sundry. But unfortunately there will always be someone who has something to say about the way we parent our children. If we smack there is someone who thinks it's wrong, if we don't smack there's someone who thinks it's wrong, at the end of the day if your form of discipline works for you then ultimately it's up to you how you discipline your child. However I do think that if your children are very naughty and do not behave in public then you can expect people to have an opinion on that. I think that as a whole society has suffered because there is such a lack of discipline these days.

With regard to your sister, I think her attitude is somewhat out of order, however,

I do think that children need to learn that certain things should not be touched and I also think that the more you move things out of their way, harder it is for them to learn because they learn that everything at their level is ok to be played with when in actual fact that's not always the case. At 2-and-a-half a child is old enough to understand that he shouldn't touch certain things, and if not, then tbh I would expect the parent of that child to supervise him/her more carefully at someone else's house so as to make sure he/she didn't break things. It's not the responsibility of other people to move ornaments out of your child's way, it's your responsibility to ensure that your child doesn't go to other peoples' houses and break other peoples' property. If a child was very young, i.e. to young to be able to understand not to touch, then of course moving ornaments is the right thing to do, but 2 and a half is not too young. Yes sometimes accidents do happen, but you've said in your OP that your children are "high energy", which to me sounds as if they are not as well-behaved as you would like.

With regard to your mother, I think that grannies sometimes just seem to take over and tell children what to do without even thinking. My mil and my mother do this too sometimes, but I do put them right if I don't agree with their tone. I did actually post a message on here some time back about a shop assistant in tesco who had shouted at my ds when he hadn't done what I'd asked, and had an awful lot of messages back saying that she was only trying to help, and that people in the community should be more prepared to help parents.

I read somewhere that you become the most judgemental once you have had children and I think thats definately true.

You sound as though you have the right methods of discipline in place and that you are happy with your childrens behaviour. Despite this, minor things will happen but they are only children after all. Try not to let this issue with your mum and sister knock your confidence in what you are doing. Smearing a sandwich on a table - big deal - not exactly naughty!
Perhaps have a quiet word with your mum and tell her how you felt and that when you are with your children its up to you to discipline how and when you feel appropriate.

I agree with adath fully.

Oh divastrop you made me belly laugh, how funny, I feel more normal now, you spoke how I feel sometimes!

My family won't help out or have my twins ds & dd 2.10 and ds 10yo they say they couldn't cope (neither can I) - we are like a tornado when we go to anyones house, and never get invited back, we generally have visitors to our house instead, its funny they always stay a long time and say how at home they feel (urgh)

when i used to take the kids to my mums there were aleays ornaments everywhere and she used to moan if they got broken,but i used to point out that she knew well in advance we were coming so why didnt she just put them out of reach.how can u have a chat with a friend or relative at the same time as running around making sure ur child sint touching anything?it wouldnt be worth visiting in the first place!when ds2 was younger,i would only visit friends who had children of a similar age,that way i knew there would be safety gates and fireguards in place and anything of value would most likely be locked away.
as for ppl 'trying to help'when ur child is misbehaving,i wouldnt mind if somebody asked me if i was ok if i was looking stressed and in need of assistance,what gets me is when (usually old)ppl start talking to ur child when they are having a bog-standard tantrum,and ur trying to do the right thing by ignoring them.

Hi again,
thanks for your messages! I've calmed down now. You're right, clairemow, the thing with my mum was worse because my sister had already upset me. And I do agree with you, WannaBe1974, that it is my responsibility to supervise the kids whether we're at home or out, so it's my responsibility if things get broken. The thing was that my niece offered to take my kids up to her room to play so that I could chat to my sis! So I was unaware. I just don't think she realised how clumsy little ones can be.

When I say that my kids are high energy I mean just that! They both love running and jumping around and being physical; it's just that it's not always appropriate to be running around other people's homes. We play a lot of rough and tumble games with them and have lots of fun at home - like we let them bounce on our beds and have tickle fights and chase each other round the house with everyone joining in - and that's exactly how dh and I want it, we want to have loads of fun with our children and enjoy them while they're little. the problem comes with teaching them that what's acceptable at home isn't always acceptable when we're out and about. Another example is that ds loves running around naked at home, but obviously we wouldn't let him go out naked! But for a 2.5 yr old it's probably difficult to understand why something is okay one moment (at home) and not the next (in town).

I felt better today as dh and I went shopping today and the kids were great...so maybe they were just having a bad day the other day.

It's hard to explain this but my mum would be devastated if I told he to butt out. There's a very strong unwritten rule in my family that we never upset my mum. That might sound weird but it's true and each time I have said stuff that's been critical or difficult to hear it's ended up in a major family feud. I can't do that right now.

hi texasrose think your sister is being slightly unreasonable! your kids are only small the way she reacted her kids must have been angels when they were small. dont worry about it accidents happen. my 2 are the same age as yours and they are just being kids. x