Bad Behaviour on Holiday - 5-year-old particularly

[NotQuiteCockney]

DS1 is nearly 5. We are on holiday. We've had a rough year (death, renovation, etc etc).

He is behaving really badly - fighting, not listening, arguing, etc etc. It could be worse, he's not running off exactly, but he's really being difficult.

The biggest problem (I think) is, he's tantrumming. He wasn't much for tantrumming when he was the right age, but he gets worked up, and really upset. I've tried sitting down and talking to him, but being firm seems to work better, maybe?

The possible explanations we have:

1. He's copying DS2, who tantrums a lot. He's nearly 2, so it's normal for him. I don't know how to get DS1 to stop copying DS2, other than pointing out to him that he's copying his brother, and talking to him about the special treats he gets, that his brother doesn't get.
2. Diet. We're normally pretty strict on sugar, but the kids have been having ice cream once or twice a day. Oh, and they're not exactly eating the high-veg organic low-gi diet we have at home. I'm not convinced this is the problem.
3. Instability. I'm in a bad mood, we're away from home, it's been a crappy year, particularly for me. DS1 does leave the best bad behaviour for me, or when I'm around. I am very intolerant of him, although I'm working on being more patient.

Any ideas/thoughts?

LOl...my dd1 was a nightmare!...we took her to Butlins in July and she became one of those kids you see acting up! we were so ashamed!!!...lol I think kids know they are on holiday and take advantage of us as parents..lol she had an almighty tantrum...if you saw her you would think what terrible parents,I wouldn't put up with that!....this was not her usuaL BEHAVIOUR...I tell u I could have 'homer' choked her at that moment! I think she was away from home, eating treats, and just having the time of her life..lol...I think it's a combination of all you have mentioned...we discussed her behaviour and she had a punishment (even on holiday!)and she improved ...but please don't beat yourself up about it...it is their nature to drive us barmy...lol

No ideas why it happens NQC but can sympathise! We've just spent a month in France staying in a colleague of DH's house. DS2 (3.3) was fine in the house but on the couple of camping trips we took - aaaaahh!!! It was the not following instructions then crying when told off that completely got me, and as you say, I was also very intolerant. We were walking to the beach one day when I heard a snotty French woman saying to her friend as we walked past " And that's the little boy who didn't stop crying and screaming all morning" I was mortified!

Oh NQC - I've just had this with my 5yr old. We had an awful weeks holiday where his behaviour was embarrassing tbh. I came back vowing not to take him away again. The worst was we were in someone elses house!

I feel for you and I made all the excuses you made above. I do find tho that sometimes when the normal structure of days at school and home are taken away- the behaviour can suffer. Now we are back things have imporved a little, and I decided to re-draw the lines a bit. Like you, I'm working on being more patient - which is hard at the end of 6 weeks with the bloody 3 of them. Just wanted you to know you are not alone.

we're the same! Dd is 4.5 and embarrassed me completely on holiday with her bad behaviour, tantrums, whining and disobedience- she's usually quite good! What made it worse was that her cousins who are usually a "handful" at the best of times behaved like little Angels!

I put it down to the long journey, lack of routine and unfamiliar food, and she does seem to be better now we are hiome and settled into school.

we ended up coming home early cos my kids were so horrible. only managed 2 days. they are 7 and 6 so old enough to know better but had stayed at their dads just before we left which is always hard work when they get back. they were warned but i dont think they believed us til we actually packed the car! afaic a holiday should be pleasant for everyone, i am willing to put up with a bit more nonsense than usual but me and dp were having such an awful time it wasnt worth staying

Ds was really grim work at five on hols NQC. I think there is an element of playing down to the toddler because we have had a touch of that this summer, and ds is now seven and generally better (if more pointedly and scathingly rude occasionally ).
But at five we found him most unpleasant at times, tbh. A weird by-product was his reading improved hugely as by mutual agreement he spent a lot of time in his room that summer.
You have left off the testosterone whack that hits boys around now, the biggest surge they get in one go until puberty. I think you need a 4) on that list. 1-3 may be exacerbating it all, you have had such a tough time this summer, but really, I think he is very possibly in the grip of something he can't quite control. Ds used to say sadly sometimes, "I don't know why I'm like this".
Oh and 5) - NEW SCHOOL. Even if hugely anticipated, it will be stressing him out.

I should probably read up more about the testosterone thingy.

I've had good friends express surprise at how difficult he is now.

I don't know how worried he is about the new school ... I'm certainly worried about it, at least the logistics.

I'm glad to hear everyone's kids are horrid on holiday, at least. I think he was better at the resort, which was quieter, and a bit more consistent and enclosed. More like a beach holiday. Here we're in a city, and much as I love it, maybe it's too much stimulation? (Or maybe I'm more tense here, much as I love this city?)

From reading your possible reasons I'd say 3 was a near certainty why his behaviour has worsened.

When I'm tired or stressed the kids behave appallingly and it's because you jump on every little thing til it escalates and it becomes a cycle of you nagging them, them reacting by huffing and behaving badly then all over again.

Yeah, I suspect as much . He certainly behaves much better when I'm not around. I don't know how to get out of this loop, though. I guess I will be less stressed when home and settled. But how do I keep from nitpicking with him?

I have the option to send him to stay with the ILs when we get back - we arrive Sunday morning, and he starts school on Wednesday morning, so he could be away Sunday to Tuesday night, I guess. I can't work out if the time off from him is worth it, or whether more disruption would put him off more.

He tends to be quite well behaved when with the in-laws.

Duh, I've realised another big cause - I've fallen out of the habit of having fun with DS1 [shame]. I haven't really been reading to him, or doing things with him at all. Not that we used to do stuff together all day, but an hour here or there makes a lot of difference. In London, we used to spend DS2's naptime going to a museum or similar, at least once per week.

At least I know what a lot of it is, I can fix this bit, unlike all the others. (Well, we are working to fix diet, even while we're still away.)

Glad to hear it's not just me-my 5 year old DS has been a nightmare, or maybe it's me that's been the nightmare? Had a mixed up school holiday ( I had a m/c), so haven't felt up to doing anything really, including enjoying each others company DS2 hasn't been too bad, but he's only just 3. Worst point so far was today when we (DS1 & me) both ended up stropping with other and were in tears in the car!!