Helping my toddler to cope

[Ilovestackingcups]

Okay, long back story here:
My DD is now 2 1/2, and we live very close to a friend who also has a child of almost exactly the same age. Ever since Other Child was able to crawl, she has always been dominant of my DD. This was fine when they were babies, when it amounted to pointless toy pinching, but as they have grown older the behaviour of Other Child has not just remained bad, but has gotten worse. She repeatedly throws enormous temper tantrums over the slightest thing. They are very regular, very screamy, and very disruptive. Other Child does not have particularly advanced language skills. Probably about average for her age, so I have put a lot of the tantrums down to being unable to express herself. She has also chosen to accompany her tantrums with acts of physical violence, and whenever we are with her, these acts of violence are almost always directed towards my DD. Worse, even when she's not tantruming, Other Child is still overly dominating of my DD, to the point where if they both walk into a play group together and DD picks up a toy (and there are a thousand other toys to choose from) Other Child has eyes only for the toy my DD is holding, and will happily hurt her to get it. She then repeats this pattern throughout every single play date, regardless of location or quantity of toys. To say the least it is tiresome. I am going to come across as a pompous arse here, but DD is much better at speaking than Other Child. She also understands much more of the world around her than Other Child, so when Other Child keeps pinching her toys, hurting her, pushing her, DD knows to just come and calmly tell an adult. So me and my friend spend inordinate amounts of time trying to calm Other Child down and rectify the situation. The thing is, my friend is incredibly defensive of Other Child's behaviour, constantly defending or excusing her actions (she doesn't know what she's doing, she's just so passionate about things, she's tired, etc). I am being bullshitted by a friend who cannot be bothered to discipline her child correctly, but worse than that my child is being made to feel that this behaviour is acceptable, and should be treated as a fact of life. My friend and I had always just said to one another that Other Child would grow out of it, that it was just a phase, that we ought to keep socialising our daughters until it all blew over. But the other day, the final straw came for me: when on the road en route to a play group I drive my friend and Other Child to, along with DD and DS (7mo), Other Child bit DD so hard she screamed in pain. Undaunted by her mothers' feeble telling off, she proceeded to do it over and over again. I was driving and could do nothing.

My question is, what would you do?
Cut off all contact with DD and Other Child?
Demand my friend pays proper attention, and more effectively disciplines her brat (and I DO NOT mean smacking)?
Ignore it and hope it all goes away?

I am at my wits end trying to figure out how to progress with this. For the last week, I have been 'busy' whenever my friend has suggested we meet up because I cannot stand the sight of Other Child. Today, we bumped into them for two minutes. What did Other Child do? Immediately lashed out at DD for no other reason than (according to her mother) she was tired.

Also, my friend, who is a very dear friend to me, has absolutely no help whatsoever at all at home, is effectively a single mother without even her family to support her as they all live overseas, and suffers with depression. The last thing I want is to make things difficult for, or isolate, my friend for the sake of her child's behaviour.

Thanks for reading this far, and I am sorry it has taken so long to get this out.

Well if another child bit mine I would have said something. Even if driving you could say something or pull over.

Some of what your friend is saying is true - 2 year olds are horrid when tired! But no excuse for the violence.

I would keep my distance. If I saw the child and she went for my child I would physically keep them apart I.e. pick up my child. I'd also tell him no hitting.

If the mum makes excucses just give the face - maybe she will get the message then.

Its a tricky situation but i would be honest (but polite) with your fiend and say to her that as the girls arent getting along very well at the moment why dont we give them a break from each other for a week or two to see if that helps.

Your friend is probably extremely tired and run down if she doesnt have help at home, and therefore no energy to enforce proper discipline/rules consistently. Could you offer to look after her DD for a couple of hours without your friend (so she could do grocery shopping in peace as example) and then you can be very firm with the rules of your house. She may just need a bit of discipline and consistency. It could also just be her personality or age.

My DS has a friend who is similar, pulls his hair, pushes or pulls on his t-shirt around his neck (she does it to all the kids). We all see her do it and if her parents dont see it then we tell her off sayin thats not nice or that its naughty behaviour etc. if her parents see it they come down very hard, she is removed from play, put in time out and made to apologise after she has done her 'time' . Its no reflection of them as people and they are consistent with it so we think it is just her personality.

Thanks for feedback guys: it's what I've kind of been thinking anyway.

hotcrosshunny yes! I do agree with you that toddlers get tired. The thing with Other Child is, there is always an excuse. If it isn't tired, it's that Other Child just feels her emotions so strongly, is passionate, dramatic, even being wonderful (yup, she has said that about her hollering child). I couldn't pull over because I was driving down a hairpin bend of a road with no safe stopping places, or I would have done that. Knowing Other Chuld as I do, I realised I had to get her out of my car as she does not respond to telling off. She screams and/or does it again. In a car this is deafening. And I frequently give my friend the face. So far this has netted zero result. However, I will persevere! I honestly think that she is making excuses for her childs' bad behaviour because even that is easier than trying to fix the situation she and her child are now in.

cravingcake it has long gone past the stage where we can call it just a phase. Other Child has been getting increasingly monstrous for about two years now. The funny thing is she only behaves like this with DD, and DD doesn't get this sort of grief from any other children. It is unique to these two kiddos. It's sort of like siblings who are so used to one another they fight tooth and nail, except it is all one way. I do try and intervene when I can, but it is so frequent that I would have to be standing over Other Child all the time when we are together and a) that isn't practical for me as I have another child to look after too, and b) surely my friend ought to be taking responsibility for her childs' actions. I am happy to help, but when I do step in it is left up to me. When I don't step in however, especially more recently, nothing gets done at all. My friend just says 'I thought they just needed to fight it out' which loosely translates as 'I'm absolutely exhausted and tired of dealing with my child so I'm going to let her knock the corners off your child for a bit whilst I sit here and pretend I can't see what's going on'. I won't offer to look after Other Child because I have tried that tactic in the past and I am left with my hands too full to cope. Other Child is very big for her age, very strong, and seems to almost enjoy being violent to get her way. Not just biting, but kicking, hitting, grabbing and pulling.

I'm sorry, I realise I sound really angry about this. Truth is I'm fuming, but I have held back on saying anything to my friend because at this stage I really don't know what she can do without facing up to some pretty extreme toddler training. Other Child has learned that the best way to get what she wants is to throw tantrums and scream as loudly as she can for as long as she can. My friend has gotten into the habit of trying to cuddle Other Child until she calms down. Other Child has thus learned the lesson: I do something naughty, I get a little bit told off, I scream, I get cuddled and lots of attention. And I can get away with bullying this smaller child who I spend a lot of time around because mummy won't stop me in case I scream, and the smaller child won't fight back.

I do agree with what you've both said, I just know that if I try and discuss it with my friend it will end our relationship. I would like to end DD's friendship with Other Child because it is stressing DD out (she's actually developed a twitch which becomes very apparent when she's just spent time with Other Child), but I want to remain friends with Other Child's mother, just without the children being involved. I have said to my friend I want to spend time with her without all of our kids, but she is so busy with two part time jobs and all of her childcare that she hasn't managed to find time for me. She does have a husband, but he's a fairly lazy and feckless arse who won't even lend her a tenner from his wallet (he earns more than she does, she's expected to meet half the household bills and pay for Other Child's childcare so she can work) and gripes if he's expected to look after his own brat. I can see where Other Child has learned to be loud and domineering from.

Thanks for feedback guys: it's what I've kind of been thinking anyway.

hotcrosshunny yes! I do agree with you that toddlers get tired. The thing with Other Child is, there is always an excuse. If it isn't tired, it's that Other Child just feels her emotions so strongly, is passionate, dramatic, even being wonderful (yup, she has said that about her hollering child). I couldn't pull over because I was driving down a hairpin bend of a road with no safe stopping places, or I would have done that. Knowing Other Chuld as I do, I realised I had to get her out of my car as she does not respond to telling off. She screams and/or does it again. In a car this is deafening. And I frequently give my friend the face. So far this has netted zero result. However, I will persevere! I honestly think that she is making excuses for her childs' bad behaviour because even that is easier than trying to fix the situation she and her child are now in.

cravingcake it has long gone past the stage where we can call it just a phase. Other Child has been getting increasingly monstrous for about two years now. The funny thing is she only behaves like this with DD, and DD doesn't get this sort of grief from any other children. It is unique to these two kiddos. It's sort of like siblings who are so used to one another they fight tooth and nail, except it is all one way. I do try and intervene when I can, but it is so frequent that I would have to be standing over Other Child all the time when we are together and a) that isn't practical for me as I have another child to look after too, and b) surely my friend ought to be taking responsibility for her childs' actions. I am happy to help, but when I do step in it is left up to me. When I don't step in however, especially more recently, nothing gets done at all. My friend just says 'I thought they just needed to fight it out' which loosely translates as 'I'm absolutely exhausted and tired of dealing with my child so I'm going to let her knock the corners off your child for a bit whilst I sit here and pretend I can't see what's going on'. I won't offer to look after Other Child because I have tried that tactic in the past and I am left with my hands too full to cope. Other Child is very big for her age, very strong, and seems to almost enjoy being violent to get her way. Not just biting, but kicking, hitting, grabbing and pulling.

I'm sorry, I realise I sound really angry about this. Truth is I'm fuming, but I have held back on saying anything to my friend because at this stage I really don't know what she can do without facing up to some pretty extreme toddler training. Other Child has learned that the best way to get what she wants is to throw tantrums and scream as loudly as she can for as long as she can. My friend has gotten into the habit of trying to cuddle Other Child until she calms down. Other Child has thus learned the lesson: I do something naughty, I get a little bit told off, I scream, I get cuddled and lots of attention. And I can get away with bullying this smaller child who I spend a lot of time around because mummy won't stop me in case I scream, and the smaller child won't fight back.

I do agree with what you've both said, I just know that if I try and discuss it with my friend it will end our relationship. I would like to end DD's friendship with Other Child because it is stressing DD out (she's actually developed a twitch which becomes very apparent when she's just spent time with Other Child), but I want to remain friends with Other Child's mother, just without the children being involved. I have said to my friend I want to spend time with her without all of our kids, but she is so busy with two part time jobs and all of her childcare that she hasn't managed to find time for me. She does have a husband, but he's a fairly lazy and feckless arse who won't even lend her a tenner from his wallet (he earns more than she does, she's expected to meet half the household bills and pay for Other Child's childcare so she can work) and gripes if he's expected to look after his own brat. I can see where Other Child has learned to be loud and domineering from.

Sorry for double essay!

I had similar a while back with a boy biting DD - he sounds the same with the toy snatching/non-verbal/rage. He bit DD more than once, two badly (bruising and one drew blood) and I ended up defending my child as his mother said it was my DD's fault for "not playing properly" ! Needless to say we kept our distance for a few months. His behaviour did seem to improve although they will always be rougher together than when she plays with other friends. However (just before we moved) at nursery DD was told off for straddling this boy and refusing to get off him while attempting to bite his arm, which shocked me. I had to sign a book to say they had explained her unreasonable behaviour and I was mortified. I did say it was usually the other way around, but accepted it. When I went outside the boy's dad was there and I told him what had happened only 10mins before we had gone in to collect them and he said "How weird, that's 7 kids now that have tried to bite him, seems to happen every couple of months!". Now, DD is no saint, but to me that just sounds as if this boy is secretly biting and other kids are doing the same back but being caught. I'd say be wary of encouraging contact as even if your friend does suddenly start parenting better, the child can then become sneakier to hide the bad behaviour. I do think it rubs off on the children subjected to it and wouldn't have let DD play with him but she would cry for him to come over.

Yes I would keep my distance. While at this age our childrens friends are centred around our friends kids she shouldn't have to spend time with this child.

I would be polite and point out that as other child seems to target your child it may help to keep them apart for a while. I have tried to keep friendships separate from children whose children are not nice to my child ( I don't mean little falling out and making friends again that I keep out of) but the one where mum is not helping situation they never last. I always can't understand why you can't mange your own kids and resent it after a while

Sounds like you already know what needs to be done but want some reassurance that it is ok, so here goes.... Stop all contact for a few months using every excuse you need to for her to get the hint (DD is unwell dont want to pass on, had rough night with baby & cant face doing anything, or simply sorry i'm busy etc). Its the only way to keep your DD away from this situation and you to keep your sanity. I do agree that kids need to work these things out for themselves but only so far before parents step in and it sounds like this line was crossed a while ago. You can still keep in touch with your friend with text/messaging so as not to lose touch. In a few months things may be very different.

You could try to meet when both your kids are at nursery/childminders/grandparents etc. I can sympatise with your situation but you do have to put you and your family first.

Thank you for all this advice and support. I feel more confident that I'm not just going insane over nothing now.

Time to draw up a good long list of excuses...