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Furious, neurotic, absurd yet deeply dastardly antics from 4yr old boy. Family on knife edge all the time....

22 replies

Ludditerebellion · 18/05/2014 21:19

It's a classic- youngest (and weeniest) boy in year, twin of girl with an older sister only in year above, so brother to two sisters, swilling in testosterone head to toe, utterly shattered all the time, very verbal boy is wreaking havoc for the whole family. Every waking moment with him at the moment is like trying to contain a box of fireworks on a bonfire. Any creative solutions or diagnoses would be greatly appreciated.

This is what I already know-
Early nights and plenty of exercise and vegetables- tick
Lots of stressing how loved he is and how it is ok to be angry but not to hurt others' bodies or feelings. Tick.
Lots of one to one time whenever poss. Tick.
Clear, calm consequences and choices, try not to lose own rag. Tick.
Give sisters plenty of support through all the verbal and physical stress coming from him. Tick.
Getting cross never works. Learnt.

A flavour of his style- Utterly unprovoked or only very slightly based in reality outbursts over almost every interchange, with such expletives as 'you coward!', 'you are the rudest mother in the entire universe', 'I wish I could chop off all of your heads because everyone in the whole wide world is so mean to me', 'I am going to another planet because I hate you so much', 'you are so stupid because you hate all boys and just want to live in a land of girls', 'right, that's it, I'm throwing you all in the bin',' aaaaaaaargh' a lot and 'rooooaaaaar' plus a lot of violent door slamming, attempted punching of people, storming about, pointing of any phallic pokey objects that can be found in menacing ways etc. Etc.

Needless to say, he is as good as gold at school, and is perfectly aware of what would actually hurt anyone or damage anything and he stops short of that, but nonetheless we are all worn to bits with his hormones and rages and being told a hundred times a day how much he hates us and we hate him.

Any impartial insights would be great, I am losing all creativity and objectivity.......

OP posts:
Babesh · 18/05/2014 21:25

Ha ha ha ha ha god I remember this. Awesome at 6 and onwards just a bugger until then. Actually all that passion and fury blossomed into very high emotional intelligence- eventually...

Babesh · 18/05/2014 21:28

Oh insights? Hide sharp things and wait it out. Mine just needed to even out.

Ludditerebellion · 18/05/2014 21:44

Babesh- Thank you- it's reassuring to know it's not just us, in one way or another it seems to be all little boys of a certain age.... I do find him really very funny and when he is in a good or philosophical or comic mood he is fantastic company, and it is often hard to keep a straight face in the midst of a fury(though the glimmer of a smile from me can push him right over the edge into profound howls). Ride it out then til 6? Did you not worry at the time that underneath it all was some deep seated attachment issue or fear that never got noticed?

Did you let him get away with a certain amount of atrocities rather than just tell him off continuously? Is he unrecognisably calm now and do you think all the angst will all reinvent itself in teenagehood in ways that are much less amusing? Can you remember some of his classic strops? Sorry, too many questions! Feel free to ignore most.

OP posts:
Bettercallsaul1 · 19/05/2014 00:54

Are you doing anything specific to deal with all this manic energy, OP? The phrase that really sticks out for me is "swilling in testosterone from head to toe"! He is the one male child with two - obviously much quieter - sisters. I wonder if he feels "different" in a negative way. He may regard his more peaceful, accommodating siblings as the ones who get all the approval and approbation (for qualities that he is incapable of showing at the moment) while he feels relatively unappreciated for his special qualities! (which include boundless energy, a strong pair of lungs and a richly fertile imagination!)

He sounds as if he needs regular outlets to vent all this energy, as it is bursting out in negative ways at the moment. What about going swimming with one parent on Saturday morning - a special one to one time that concentrates on him and lavishly praising all improvements he is making with it, both to him but especially in front of his sisters? Or playing football with his Dad in the park - regular "boys only" sessions which they can talk about later at home? It sounds to me as if he is lacking self-esteem, which is manifesting itself in anger towards the world, and his family and "perfect" sisters in particular. He needs to feel "special" but in a good way - at the moment he is trying to get this feeling in the only way he knows - by attracting your attention through negative behaviour.

Bettercallsaul1 · 19/05/2014 00:55

Are you doing anything specific to deal with all this manic energy, OP? The phrase that really sticks out for me is "swilling in testosterone from head to toe"! He is the one male child with two - obviously much quieter - sisters. I wonder if he feels "different" in a negative way. He may regard his more peaceful, accommodating siblings as the ones who get all the approval and approbation (for qualities that he is incapable of showing at the moment) while he feels relatively unappreciated for his special qualities! (which include boundless energy, a strong pair of lungs and a richly fertile imagination!)

He sounds as if he needs regular outlets to vent all this energy, as it is bursting out in negative ways at the moment. What about going swimming with one parent on Saturday morning - a special one to one time that concentrates on him and lavishly praising all improvements he is making with it, both to him but especially in front of his sisters? Or playing football with his Dad in the park - regular "boys only" sessions which they can talk about later at home? It sounds to me as if he is lacking self-esteem, which is manifesting itself in anger towards the world, and his family and "perfect" sisters in particular. He needs to feel "special" but in a good way - at the moment he is trying to get this feeling in the only way he knows - by attracting your attention through negative behaviour.

puntasticusername · 19/05/2014 01:19

Aw, he sounds pretty familiar (I have a much-adored 3yo DS1 who sometimes shows signs of going the same way...)

As Saul said - I'd think about trying to find neutral physical outlets for his natural anger and frustration. Accompanied with a lot of reassurance about his continuing important place in his family.

Personally, I'd go easy on reacting to a lot of the more outrageous things he says. Some of it it will be frustration and/or just to get a response. He will be largely testing ground to see what he can get away with. Not in a negative way, just in a kid way Grin Take the power away from him by carefully judging what things to react to and what to ignore. I can't give precise advice here as it's very nuanced - but bear it in mind and hopefully it might help! Smile Smile

Babesh · 19/05/2014 09:11

Did I worry - yeah wondered if he had something I was missing. He was violent from about 28 months and seriously from two upwards. He also was very verbal And actually I knew he was well attached which made it harder to see a cause for IYSWIM. I am very used to young children and knew he was on the outer edges of normal behaviour.

Classics? Ha so many. At 2.5 in the park he would say 'that tree might fall on you and you would be squashed and dead. I think it will!' much more sinister then 'I hate you!' Though he said this too. We all had scratches all the time as he would suddenly turn and lamp you or take a chunk of your cheek. It could be because his car wheel didn't turn, because he was tired or hot or hungry or anything really. If he was ill he was terrifying!

Tellings off oh yes we did plenty but really they made no difference as it wasn't until he was older he could control the beast. It just made me believe even more that you model calm and kind and it comes good. I got bogged down in battles sometimes and only ever regretted it after.

He did just outgrow it though it lurks still and every know and then it EXPLODES. It goes much quicker and I just have to rember to wait until it subsides. Still worries me a bit that it might make him vulnerable later but I think he will just keep evening out. He is super mature, intelligent, deep, funny and imaginative - one of those children all adults think marvellous.

Funnily one of his brothers is outwardly volatile and has quick flash and flare rage and tears and can be a bit naughty given half the chance. Strangers will sometimes express surprise that he isn't easier like his brother - hollow laughter from me and his dad and close friends too as he is never cross for longer than five mins, he is an amateur!

Babesh · 19/05/2014 09:11

Sorry from about 18 months !

UriGeller · 19/05/2014 09:22

As a mum to 3 boys, I'd be a bit freaked out if one didn't carry on like that tbh.

He sounds brilliant, but constructively I'd say taking them for a massive yomp outdoors does wonders to bring out their calmer side.

Ludditerebellion · 19/05/2014 09:42

Thanks all.
Saul. thank you so much. I think you have hit the nail on the head. He is very low in self esteem and he is in need of outlets for his energy. The only problem with that is his tiredness being in conflict with his testosterone levels. For example, the walk to school is a mile, and the girls can easily manage it by walking steadily without losing their rag, but he will sprint a few hundred yards then collapse on the ground, then cry, then start walking home in a rage, then say he is going to Australia, then get angry because someone has overtaken him and so on and so on. I try to walk them to school as much as I can, but I can't always face the stress of his palavering, yet ironically it is probably him who needs to burn off the energy by walking/running home the most. Scooters and bikes are out of the question unfortunately because there are too many unsafe roads on the journey and I can't keep on top of all three going at different speeds and have ended up carrying three wheeled objects and one child half a mile in the past.

In my mind, his sisters do not get more praise and attention for being 'good', but I know he sees it that way, and they certainly don't need to be disciplined anything like as much as him, though they have their issues too, there is a lot of sibling rivalry, inevitably with a gang of three all within two years of each other.

Things also aren't helped by the fact that his twin sister, despite being an August baby too, is pretty much at the top of her class for reading and writing, and whilst he is doing brilliantly too, he is behind her. And their older sister is old for her year and is also always at the top end on academic achievement.

He is good at doing still, thoughtful activities, and the girls are good at playing football and climbing trees etc., so in some ways I am reluctant to separate them all off into gender or energy based activities, but on the other hand one to one time is always the best healer. His dad is very aware of the need to have a outlet for machismo- they have punch mitts and crossbows and spend lots of time at the weekends rolling about on the floor fighting and learning to 'box'. He often takes all three of them out at the weekend to play football in the park, and his twin is a bit less inclined to rough play, but his older sister loves it too. Taking one out on their own is always great, but it has to be done three times, which takes out the whole weekend really.

He is the weakest swimmer by far, because he is anxious, and that is something that bothers him. So perhaps the focusing on swimming would be a good thing to start with. In fact, I asked his teacher if he could do a half day today because he is so exhausted, and so maybe I could take him swimming this afternoon.

My husband is barely around in the week unfortunately as he is a commuter, so that doesn't help, and all three crave his attention and time continuously.

I would love him to feel 'special' in a good way, but it is really hard to arrange the circumstances for that, when they operate as a pack so much of the time. They do very little extra curricular activity as I think school is enough at this age, but I do take them swimming (all together) and they do dance (all together). He is actually a fantastic dancer, but I am not sure quite how this could become his special thing when the other two love it so much too.... Lots of things to think about, thank you.

OP posts:
NCISaddict · 19/05/2014 10:00

I feel for you having had two boys like this although at least they had each other. I found lots of exercise at a time when you didn't have to be anywhere so not akin to walking to school but kicking a ball in the park etc.
As he's an only boy, how about something at the weekends that his sisters don't do? Rugby tots or football? Not that girls can't do them obviously but just something that he would see as his 'special' thing where he's not competing with his siblings.

forago · 19/05/2014 10:06

I have 3 boys also and one who has the uncontrolled furies like that. He is 6 though and learning to control it.

best thing I ever bought was a trampoline, they live out on it and bounce of all that energy. have you or could you get one for the garden?

Ludditerebellion · 19/05/2014 20:30

Just to report back, today I have done the following-

Arranged for him to have three half days from school this week on grounds of 'emotional ill health' and stress, though he is under 5 anyway. Luckily I can do it this week as I am a teacher and my students are on exam leave.

Taken him swimming this afternoon and got 80% over his fear of putting his head under, which I have been trying to do for years, but never managed, having never taken him swimming alone before!

Completely ignored seven or eight highly inflammatory comments including 'you are the biggest, rudest bully in the whole entire land' and 'if you nag me anymore I am going to die. I wish I was dead anyway you bully'. In all instances responded with as much love as musterable.

Chased him and his sister (older one is away at the moment) around in the garden very hectically with brooms and grass fights and other things this evening until they were both bright red and then an early night.

All of which seems to have worked pretty well as for the first time in a very long time he forgot to tell me he was scared of burglars at bed time and then get into my bed, there were no foul words, he was even bordering on polite and loving, and he went out like a light.

His twin sister is also very happy as she has been promised a whole mummy day this Saturday when my husband is back.

Thanks again everyone, I feel like I should be paying for this advice!

(I have only used Mumsnet once before, but made a new log in this time as I forgot the last one). Last time it was great and this time again.
I really appreciate the time.

OP posts:
DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 19/05/2014 20:47

This thread has given me a happy glow. Hurrah for a positive day luddite . I think all the advice sounds very sensible and we'll thought out. I have just read "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" and toddlercalm and peaceful parent, happy kids (can you tell I'm struggling atm? ) and a lot of it is things I've just been reading about.

I have nothing useful to add but am avidly taking notes. I have a 3.8 year old daughter and 25 month old twin boys (so all three only 5 days off 19 months apart). Today I have parented appallingly from losing it at tea time onwards. I am now again enthused for improving things tomorrow to erase my shame about this evening Blush Sad Sad

Bettercallsaul1 · 19/05/2014 22:04

Ludditerebellion -That is wonderful that you have had such a great day , with your son feeling so much happier and at peace (no fears of burglars at bedtime!) There's nothing like a joyful, rumbustious game in the fresh air to calm the spirits!

You really have your hands full with three young children so close in age - it must be such hard work constantly responding to their needs. Just to add a crumb of comfort regarding your son - he is four, and I have heard many times on MN (so it must be true!) that little boys have a testosterone surge at this age, making them suddenly much more active and aggressive in their play and in their lives generally. I certainly remember my son suddenly becoming much more spirited and playing lots of games where there was an "enemy" to be attacked - cowboys, soldiers, Ninja turtles etc. It could be that your son has just had one of these hormonal "peaks" and will settle down as his body adjusts.

I hope today was a turning point and that things continue to improve for you and your son - all we really want is for them to be happy, don't we!

hotcrosshunny · 19/05/2014 22:54

That is nice!

Although I do wonder why the daughter gets a whole mummy day? Does your son get those?

He's probably exhausted with school - I remember reading somewhere that reception kids get nasty at this time of year because they're so tired and it has accumulated. It is stressful being on your best behaviour at school and he just needs to unwind somehow.

Fram · 19/05/2014 23:03

hotcross- he has had one today!

Loads of good advice on this thread. Luddite- I hope you stick around! Smile

Ludditerebellion · 19/05/2014 23:19

Yes hot cross he is getting three mummy afternoons this week- so we calculated hours and worked out it equated to a day of her own, she just does not need or want a break from school, so at the weekend instead. Everything is weighed and measured for absolute fairness and quid pro quo in this house!

And yes, school is far too much for him. I know this, it is just knowing what to do to alleviate the stress- but am feeling well on the way now.

OP posts:
ShevelKnievel · 20/05/2014 08:19

Are those comments really highly inflammatory? They just seem kind of run of the mill to me. Perhaps I've been desensitised?

AWombWithoutARoof · 20/05/2014 08:33

If you nag me any more I am going to die Grin

He sounds very likely my best mate's DS, who is also four, apart from he doesn't have as much language as your DS. He is constantly needing to hit things, attack things, swipe sticks about. Nothing at all can be done at less than full physical strength. It's exhausting for her. Hope that's some comfort, if not actually any help!

hotcrosshunny · 20/05/2014 09:43

A whole day isnt quite the same as several afternoons. I think my point is that trying to treat each one the same isn't quite treating then equally iyswim. My DH's parents did this very militantly but there's still rivalry etc.

I would try and avoid getting into those sorts of discussions with the children but try and give them a bit of your time every day on a one to one basis if possible. This could be ten minutes here or there eg reading a story, doing homework etc.

You're trying to meet the needs of each child and sometimes one needs you more than another or one needs you in a different way to another. Might be better to respond on that basis.

My ds is 4.5 and a ball of excess energy and rage. I find giving him ten minutes a day really makes a difference - responding at least once to his request to play even if I see that washing up needs doing (for example). The days I don't are the days it goes wrong.

gildedlily · 20/05/2014 10:17

Hi, this all sounds very familiar. Do you know anyone with slightly older boys. I found my son really responded well to playing with older boys - both the rough and tumble type and the quieter ones too.

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