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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Still not potty trained 6 months before school

20 replies

pumpkinsweetie · 27/04/2014 17:45

My dd is just over 3 1/2 and I have unsuccessfully tried to potty train her twice. So this weekend we tried again and she still has no interest despite reward chart/stickers/promise of something nice at end of week/new potty/new knickers.

She isn't showing any signs of being ready, she just pees and poos her knickers and doesn't even care and has never attempted a wee or poo on potty or toilet.

With school not being far away in time the health visitor for my 4month old is insisting potty training needs to take place now and will be getting my dds particular hv to ring me so she can make a meeting with me about strategies.
I even asked nursery to help me whilst she is there starting tomorrow. But after another weekend of pee and poo everywhere I think the hv is wrong and if she isn't ready it's best not to push her.

OP posts:

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Original poster

pumpkinsweetie · 27/04/2014 17:46

*to get my 3 1/2 yo trained

OP posts:

2cats2many · 27/04/2014 17:50

Maybe she isn't ready right now, but she really does need to be out off nappies before school starts.

Sometimes it takes more than a few days for training to sink in. Why don't you live with the pee and poo for a bit longer before you give up? It took more than two days for my DS to get the hang of the toilet for wees and a few weeks before he cracked the poo thing.

Have you looked into whether there is any physical reason why she can't control her bladder and bowels yet?

2cats2many · 27/04/2014 17:51

Maybe she isn't ready right now, but she really does need to be out off nappies before school starts.

Have you looked into whether there is any physical reason why she can't control her bladder and bowels yet?

2468Motorway · 27/04/2014 17:58

It does sound like she isn't ready yet. You still have some time before Sept so don't panic.

If you go for it I have found the nursery really supportive as long as you send lots of changes. I found sticker charts etc useless at this age and a more tangible reward like a smartie better.

If you have the patience I think it helps to sort of insist on the first one or 2. So sit her on the potty or toilet at a time when you think she might need to go and read books and sing songs until she does. I think it might feel a bit weird after nappies so its good to reassure. Then you can reward with a smartie and she might understand what she is belong asked to do.

2468Motorway · 27/04/2014 18:01

I agree 2 days is a short time for some children to manage to get it. First 3 days with my youngest were a disaster, then he suddenly mostly got it.

ReallyTired · 27/04/2014 18:42

Does the OP daughter have any learning difficulties or developmental delay? Most neurologically typical children are easily ready to learn to use the toilet by three and half years old.

How long have you given toilet training? Its unreasonable to expect no accidents intially. One week end of wee and poo is nothing. Most children have a least a week of accidents before they get the idea. In fact I think with school only being a couple of months off the OP should stick her daugher in pants and only use nappies for sleep times regardless of accidents.

However I think the OP should wait three weeks until her little girl is settled at the new nursery before attempting toilet training. Her lo will see that nearly all the chidren using the toilet during this time. Before starting the training make a big fuss that your daughter is now a big girl and get her to choose some pretty knickers.

I found the Gina Ford approach to toilet training effective.

catkind · 27/04/2014 18:58

My time frame for a PT attempt is 2 weeks.

How about a different approach though? What we did with our two is first get them peeing/pooing on the toilet (or potty), then remove nappies, then take them to sit on the toilet often enough to stay dry for a few days to get them out of the habit of going in pants completely. Then when we started to get lazy about reminders they just took over.

Whichever method you're using I think your first target would be to break the duck and get her peeing or pooing in the toilet. Are there any times of day she usually goes? With mine a sure win was getting them to the toilet as soon as they woke up. For others it might be after a meal. Or say 20 minutes after having a big drink.

Having picked your moment, read a story or two to distract them, before they know it they've done a pee in the toilet, big celebration. One friend fed hers orange squash then sat them on the potty for some DVD watching! We found once they'd accidentally gone in the toilet a few times they suddenly got the hang of it and started doing it deliberately.

catkind · 27/04/2014 19:01

PS I don't have all that much faith in "readiness" signs. DS was showing none of them, but was over 3, and developed a habit of shredding nappies so they lasted 5 mins max, so we started training anyway. He started getting the hang of it after about a week, after 2 weeks was basically trained with the odd accident. I think it would have taken a loooong long time for him to PT of his own accord, he had got into a habit of dribbling into his nappy so he'd never get the full bladder feeling or really tell what was going on at all.

SoftSheen · 27/04/2014 19:05

DD had mostly accidents for about 2-3 weeks until she started to 'get' it, at about 2.11. You really need to try for a lot longer than 2 days, hard as it is.

MotherOfInsomniacToddlers · 27/04/2014 19:05

Have you tried going without pants at all? My dd1 just weed and pood in pants but could do it with nothing on, we had to do a good month with no pants at all as every time we put them on she would wet

ZingWatermelon · 27/04/2014 19:12

similar here.

DS5 is 4 next month.
Some days he runs to the toilet for a wee.
On Friday he pooed all over DS2's bed, pillow, bedroom carpet and toys

I'm pg with #7, still have morning sickness and we are moving in 3 weeks.
It's seems awful timing to nappy try and toilet train him (again) but I'm panicking coz I know it will be harder after baby's born!

nappy on or off he never says he has done a poo or needs one.
he does say when he needs or done a wee though.

having train his 4 older brothers successfully around age 3 - 3.5 I'm a bit puzzled.

tumbletumble · 27/04/2014 19:13

I agree with some others. DS2 didn't seem ready (he was 2.7) and he had loads of accidents and very few successes for the first couple of weeks, but I really wanted him out of nappies so I persevered and he eventually got the hang of it.

meditrina · 27/04/2014 19:15

I think that by 3.5 years (unless there are other developmental issues) you are now into the frame when you can push her. The ability to use the toilet is a fundamental part of being ready for school. I hope th HV will be able to help you with both strategies and resolve. (Older children can however become reliable very quickly, so it's not doom and gloom).

If she does not learn, have you considered deferring her start date until January, perhaps even later? Being able to use the toilet is a pretty basic skill for being school ready (although schools should be able to cope with DC who cannot).

And I speak as a parent who was despairing of eldest DC ever toilet training. It was the prospect of school which made me more determined to accept no prevarication (a level of resolve which. Think he detected) that finally got it cracked - at about the 6 months to go point.

ReallyTired · 27/04/2014 20:09

"If she does not learn, have you considered deferring her start date until January, perhaps even later? Being able to use the toilet is a pretty basic skill for being school ready (although schools should be able to cope with DC who cannot)."

I disagree. continent. School has to accept her whether she is reliable with the toilet or not. She won't want to be in nappies at school anymore than you want her to be in nappies at school. I suspect that she will feel sensitive to be the only child in nursery in nappies.

Children learn so much in the first term. The whole of reception is a gentle transition from nursery to formal education. If you start her after christmas then she will miss out on loads of basic phonics teaching. In the past when summer borns started after christmas they were at a huge disadvantage.

Have faith .... she will not go to school in nappies. Be positive and upbeat that your little girl can do it.

If we get any sunshine then a little bit of bare bottom time in the garden with the potty nearby will help her to get the idea of toilet training. Don't get hung up about accidents - your little girl cannot help it. Let her decide when to go so that she can learn to recongise the feeling of a full bladder. Reward sucess with chocolate/ sweet/ pringles or whatever works within reason.

Original poster

pumpkinsweetie · 27/04/2014 22:15

Thankyou all for your advice
Re learning difficulties, her speech is very delayed and the speech therapist we jave started seeing thinks speech dyxpraxia. Her vocabulary is very very limited and those words she does use or unintelligible to most and even me at times
I don't think that helps as communication is an issue on a daily basis. We do makaton signing but even that is limited.

The two attempts before this were 4 days straight each consisting of pooing and weeing knickers and absolutely no gos on potty.I would sit her and she would squeal, the same as this time.

I persevered today until bath & bed in which she now has a nappy on.
I'm going to attempt to try potty training in cooperation with the nursery tomorrow in the hope seeing her peers do similar gets things forward. I will send her in with 3 or 4 outfits and go from there.

Only issue now is when to get her dressed in the morning as I don't want her soiling her uniform just before we leave.

OP posts:

Littlefish · 27/04/2014 22:21

How long is she in nursery for tomorrow? I would send more than 3 or 4 outfits if you can. I'm a nursery teacher and regularly help with toilet training. We suggest parents send in at least 6 or 7 sets of clothes even if the child is only in for a morning. It's so much nicer for the child to be dressed in their own clothes if they have an accident, than to have to borrow spare nursery clothes.

I know you're probably doing this already, but do you ask her if she needs to go to the toilet, or do you say "it's time to go to the toilet now" and take her? I would suggest the latter as a strategy as it doesn't sound like your dd has got the hang yet of recognising when she needs to go so you will need to lead that process.

ReallyTired · 27/04/2014 22:24

pumpkinsweetie if your child has developmental delay in other areas then its understandable if she is not toilet trained. If she has severe speech delay or dypraxia then its possible that she may not be ready. Does she understand what the toilet is?

I suggest that you get one of those dolls that wees when you give it water. My children played with this doll.

www.amazon.co.uk/Baby-Annabell-Care-Me-Doll/dp/B004ZWVU30/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

They had great fun potty training dolly and telling her to do her wees in the toilet.

Picture books that explain how to use the toilet are useful as well

www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Potty-Alona-Frankel/dp/1554072840/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398633679&sr=8-1&keywords=once+upon+a+potty

Original poster

pumpkinsweetie · 28/04/2014 06:14

Had a re think this morning. However quick school is coming she still has one half term break before the summer one so going to try then as we have a whole week headstart before nursery begins which will be better for them too

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 28/04/2014 09:14

I think you are being sensible. Starting nursery is a big thing for a child and children without developmental issues often regress. She will have a few weeks of seeing other children going to the toilet and it may well be that she will want to be like the other kids.

rocketjam · 28/04/2014 13:53

Ok DS has speech dyspraxia, and mild physical dyspraxia. It took ages for him to 'get' the sensation of going to the loo. I genuinely think that some (most??) children with dyspraxia are not well 'connected' with their body and have problems understanding which muscle controls what. Take advantage of the summer and let her go out without knickers, just bare bottom, so that she can 'feel' herself having a wee or pool. I'm afraid it might take much longer than a weekend, you probably have tough weeks/months ahead of you. DS went to a special pre-school for children with speech problems and they were fine with him wearing a pull up, and by Christmas he was reliable enough to wear pants.

I don't want to sound rough, and it's probably the last thing you want to hear, but I don't think that your daughter is not 'ready', I think she will not be 'ready' until she understands how it feels like to have a wee and a pool which can take a long time for children with dyspraxia. Try to get our GP to refer you for a full physical assessment and she if she might show signs of physical dyspraxia. This website is very interesting, but please don't jumps to conclusion and speak to your GP about it. www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/dyspraxia-children/symptoms

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