8 month old hurting himself for attention

[BraveLilBear]

I'm worried about my 8 month old DS. I've been back to work full time for a month, he's been in nursery for all that time, plus three weeks of gradual build up beforehand.

He seems to love it - there's lots for him to do and see and they look after him really well.

Yesterday they told me though that he's not been himself for the last couple of days, a bit quiet and 'sad', less smiley etc. Worst of all, whenever they put him down to play with another baby or do something else, he's apparently started throwing himself around on the floor - so he'll fling himself backwards from sitting. He then 'fake' cries until he's picked up or given some attention.

I have two concerns - one that he's going to hurt himself, and two that he's reacting in a bad way to being in nursery full-time.

Developmentally, he's doing pretty well; eats very well, sleeps okay (hampered by perma cold/cough since starting nursery), babbles away, has nailed proper crawling in the past week and now pulls himself to standing and occasionally cruises.

He was the youngest at the nursery until a couple of weeks ago, as there are now two much younger babies there as well some days.

Do I need to worry about him doing this? He doesn't seem to do it at home. Will this pass? Anything we can do to reassure him that he doesn't need to be quite so dramatic for attention?

I feel so guilty him being in nursery full-time - this just makes me feel so much worse - I would hate for him to be unhappy because of my doing :(

All babies go through a stage of flinging themselves backwards, it can be tricky when they start to have tantrums proper to catch them before their head hits the floor. I think your lo is too young to be intentionally trying to hurt himself to get attention. It's just a way of expressing frustration, and the world can be a frustrating place at that age when they are too small to play with many toys properly, and unable to mobilise to get where they want to go. He possibly does it less or doesn't do it at home because when you're there you know how best to distract and play with him, and he is in a familiar place. My ds1 had one cold after another for the first few months after starting nursery and suddenly being exposed to all the new germs (dd2 got them all from ds1 and his school friends). I would say it is more likely that your ds has felt a bit under par from the various germs and teething for the past couple of days rather than being out of sorts for emotional reasons. The nursery should be used to babies flinging themselves about and know to pop a cushion on the floor or put him somewhere soft when they first put him down. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you (easier said than done, I appreciate), the infections will lessen with time and he will settle in more as he gets used to it there.

Are you positive that he's getting the physical contact and comfort from one person that he needs at this nursery? He is clearly craving it - what does his key worker say? How much does she carry him? Babies are very capable of bonding with one person at their childcare setting (as long as they don't have too many other carers in their lives) but they do have to have one particular person, and babies this age do still require a lot of physical contact. Have you considered a childminder who could do more attachment-style care?

Can he easily get from sitting to crawling positions.
Mine has always had a bit of head throwing.
Often would get my cheeks etc.
If i tried to drop her off at nursery i would put her sown and she would do it. It usually is if she doesnt want to go down she would crumple and do it.
There is a lot going on at that age crawling/cruising and teething.
Is he doing it if they pick another child up after.
I think they can just want to be up away from the others

Maybe the two babes are being picked up now, and your little DS isn't anymore.

He clearly needs what her was getting before the change in nursery.
Poor little fellow. And poor you, it's very upsetting.

I think a attachment style childminder would be a good idea, or getting his main carer to carry him around for a while - though with two younger babes in the nursery this might not be available to him now.

Maybe look into changing your childcare arrangements.

That's a very good point about the other two (younger) babies probably getting the physical attention that he used to. I realise I'm prejudiced, as a childminder, but it's one of my main beefs with nurseries, that you have loads of children in the same age group all competing for attention and needing the same thing at the same time. You tend not to get that with a CM.

That's interesting, thanks. I agree, I thought it was a bit odd when I asked 'is this normal?' and they said it's ok, we found it quite amusing.

I very rarely see his key worker - she does 9 til 2.30pm every day and I drop off at 8.30am and pick up around 5.15pm. He does seem very attached to one of the girls who does every afternoon - and she to him (she'll often drop in comments about he'd only go to her one day or another which punctures my heart, especially when I pick him up and he's reaching out to her).

The ratio there is 1:3 with max 6 babies in the room at any one time, and they often only have 3 or 4 babies in for a day. Certainly every time i go to pick him up, if he's not asleep in the comfy area, he's invariably being held by someone.

I don't know how to find a childminder who we could afford, a nanny is out of the question as we don't have the room in the house, my mum always talks about how she had a mother's help when we were very small and that was a lifesaver, but we couldn't afford to stump up minimum wage for just one child (we've postponed any thought of child number two until DS is at school due to childcare costs).

The other advantage of this nursery is that it's 5 minutes' walk from my office - I don't have a car (DP has the family car and commutes 60 miles ew) so have to walk or public transport the 2miles to work/nursery. If I had multiple locations to consider it would mean him being in childcare a lot longer and me being further away in case of emergency.

DP and I have pledged to make an effort to give him some fuss and attention when he's playing nicely by himself to reinforce good behaviour and make sure he feels loved. It has also occurred to me that he never gets any 1-1 time any more - it used to be just me and him full time in the daytime, but now we get an hour in the morning and evening max which is usually taken up with getting dressed or bathed and into bed etc. On a Saturday, we invariably have his big brother (11) over for the whole day, and Sunday, DP and I invariably end up dashing about trying to get things done.

Will see if this behaviour continues at nursery.

X-post! He can easily get from sitting to crawling, lying on back to crawling, and he manages to go back to sitting from crawling sometimes.

I will pop over and have a chat with his key worker on my lunch break one day this week and see what she says but it may well be he's not adjusting well to not being the 'baby' anymore. But then could also be everything else on top!

I think actions like this can be a fairly normal developmental phase. As they get more physically able, they are learning what they can & can't do, what is good to do & what isn't. Or at least that was what the HV did when I took DC1 in to see her after she'd spent two days repeatedly knocking her head against the wall, the wiggled to the sofa and did it agains that & then wiggled & did it against the table leg and I was in a complete panic that there was something wrong with her. When DC2 did it, I just watched in amusement. When he learned to stand, he loved "wumpfing" down on his bottom (by which I mean sitting down really quickly) and quickly learned that he could do it on the bed or the sofa but not on the tiled floor & definitely not whilst on the, thankfully shallow, step from the dining room to the sitting room.
Also, 8mo is classic separation anxiety time and I think that they are more likely to go through separation anxiety when they crawl as they realise things move and that they can move. With DC1, I couldn't put her down without her howling and woe betide I dare leave the room so I had her in a sling a lot. With DC2, he was just left to howl sometimes as he was a second child and DC1 had something which needed to be dealt with. If there are two younger ones then, yes, your DS may be getting less attention but the nursery workers will be used to working with these ratios and juggling the needs of different babies and the two little ones are probably napping quite a lot anyway. He will adapt and get used to it. I also think cracking crawling is a key development for settling at nursery as he can now get to the things he wants to play with himself rather than relying on someone bringing it to him.
Having said all of that, are there any staff who work all of the hours that your DS is in nursery and, if so, could that person become his key worker? If not, there should at least be a regular person who you handover your DS to in the morning. I have to say that with DC2, I am less hung up on the whole key worker thing as have realised that, in a room of 12 1-2yr olds, the 4 adults get to know them all pretty well whether they are the nominated key worker or not.
As for the time you've got with him, yes, he won't be having as much 1:1 with you but he will be seeing you at the weekends. Presumably the 11yo goes off and does his own thing to an extent leaving you & just the baby to do things. And whilst you are rushing around on a Sunday doing things, you'll have the baby with you so are interacting with him then.

I would be worried at anyone suggesting a 8 month old could be deliberately trying to hurt themselves. In my opinion that just isn't possible, they don't have the thinking ability to reason like that, and won't for years.

I think popping in during the day is a good idea.
A child minder is often more economical than a nursery though, although finding a good one can be tricky.

Thank you for such a considered response weetabix, I do think there is an element of balance (and self) discovery at play here - he loves playing the game where DP or I will gently hold his hands while standing then 'let go' so he can experience balance but catch him before he falls (we won't be doing this for a while!).

The 11yo is fairly high maintenance but occasionally DS and I will get an hour out while they play a board game and I'll try and settle him for a nap or play quietly.

And yes, separation anxiety is definitely kicking in - it's a double whammy really that we literally have nowhere safe to leave him for a moment now so last night, for example, I had to take him to the loo with me because DP was finishing dinner off and couldn't watch DS at the same time. We will have to get a play pen prison very soon!

At nursery there is one worker who works three full days but has two off, the assistant manager tends to fill in all day on those two days; one does all afternoons and I think one full day; the other does five short days.

The good news is that DS is really happy with all of these central 4, three in particular, and I can usually hand him to one of the four in the morning. Slightly complicated is that before 9am and after 4.30pm they combine with the 1-2 year old room to maximise staff numbers (most kids there are in 9.30 to 3.30ish) so it can be quite randomised as to who is there to take him in the morning, although I always make sure he goes to someone (ie not just put on the floor).

This parenting lark is definitely not easy

That is good that he is so settled with so many of the workers. They do get to know them quickly and feel comfortable with them. Yes, he may miss you and there will be stages when he missed you more than others but going to nursery will be his normal and he won't know different.
As for having no where safe to leave him, then do some baby proofing. It is a real shock when they first get mobile but can be done quite quickly. The things we focused on were putting cushion things or sharp corners as they can really hurt, moving a few knick knacks which have sentimental value, moving anything sharp, dangerous or with pieces, making sure furniture was stable and then leaving the DC to get on with it. When you say your DP wasn't able to keep an eye on your DS whilst cooking, what do you mean? What would you have done had you still been on mat leave when he started crawling and you were making lunch or similar? My DC were either left to crawl around my feet and I kept an eye on where they were or put in their highchair with some crayons or in the jumperoo if I did want to pin them down.
As for weekends, now that your DS is going to start demanding more attention and it is more interactive attention rather than being held which is all they really need as a baby, it may be that you re-jig things a bit so, for example, you give the 11yo 1:1 time whilst the baby is napping or asleep in the evening and then the baby gets some 1:1 time whilst the 11yo is playing computer games or our on his bike or something. Or you split up a bit more. Last weekend, DC2 and DP did the supermarket whilst I ran a few errands in town with DC1. I found it a real shift when DC2 became about 8 or 9mo and became a real person rather than just a bit of a blimp who, provided he was fed & cuddled regularly, would be happy with anyone. It really changed how we plan things. We still do loads as a family, but I really enjoyed an hour or so with just DC1.