borrowing and not paying back

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twiglett · 10/03/2004 08:32

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handlemecarefully · 10/03/2004 08:46

I agree - the note raises the ante a bit. Try and get the other mum to one side at some point during the evening and lightly refer to it.

SueW · 10/03/2004 09:16

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robinw · 10/03/2004 15:46

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Jaybee · 10/03/2004 16:46

robinw - I think I would speak to the child herself again, especially if you know her well enough for sleepovers. Maybe say something like - could dd have the money that you owe her, she would like to buy xxx and can't. I think I would tell the child that you will ask her mother for it otherwise - I doubt the mum knows that she owes it. Re. the toothbrush, I wouldn't give her another one - she is old enough to remember her own toothbrush and she is of the age when she wouldn't like smelly breath - one night without brushing won't do any lasting harm and she won't forget next time.

Freckle · 10/03/2004 17:24

How about raising it next time she's due for a sleepover? Along the lines of "Don't forget your toothbrush - oh and could you bring the money you owe DD as well?"

How often does she come to stay?

charliecat · 10/03/2004 17:37

My way of getting money back that has been borrowed but is not getting paid back very quickly, as if they have forgotten its owed is to say, oh can i borrow a fiver till tommorow, oh thanks, actully, this can be the fiver you owed me from last friday. Could your dd not do similar if she knows when this other girl gets pocket money?
Or if your dd just wants to forget it i would just ask again and again and eventually she will give you it just to shut you up. She shouldnt borrow money if shes not prepared to give it back. Thats not fair.

SueW · 10/03/2004 18:17

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bloss · 10/03/2004 21:42

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bloss · 10/03/2004 21:44

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Jimjams · 10/03/2004 21:52

I'm with bloss on this one. I'd refund your dd the 2.50 and treat it as a lesson in life. I lent someone 200 quid once (had just recieved my grant- I certainly didn't have a spare 200 quid)) and he didn't pay it back- that was a big lesson- wish I'd learned it earlier. Toothbrushes I wouldn't worry about either. If she always forgets and you get fed up giving her a toothbrush then let her go without brushing her teeth one night. Actually I'd be the same the SueW. We never have spares and if we did it would probably end up lying aroud until next time she came. There are advantages to being a domestic slob. Thinking about it visitors would be brave to bring a toothbrush into our house as ds1 would just use it anyway.

carolthatcher2003 · 10/03/2004 21:53

Silly question, but when is a good time to start pocket money anyway? how much?

I haven't thought of this until now - I feel so mean!

jasper · 10/03/2004 23:02

Agree with Bloss and Jimjams - even lent someone £200 once and never saw it again!
Bit sad that kids have to learn so early in life that some people are just unreliable. Particularly sad that it is really his kid's parents that are at fault. Write it off to experience and try to convey this very adult experience to your dd.

charlize · 11/03/2004 06:59

Am I the only one who thinks were being a bit hard on this other girls parents.
Forgetting your toothbrush is hardly a crime.
Iam even guilty of forgetting to put my ds toothbrush in his sleepover bag on a couple of occassins.
Does this mean he is subject to child abuse at home or that Iam a bad mother who doesn't care!
If this is the only crime of the parent then I think its really unfair that some are making assumptions of neglect.
On the issue of the money, similar things have happened to me and ds but we haven't give it a second thought.
On one occassion, I was taking my ds and his friend swimming. Friend had forgotten his goggles and asked me if I would lend him 4.50 to buy a new pair.
I did so gladly but never expected nor got the money back, but its only a few pounds and he was only a child.
another time my ds gave 50p to a girl in his class because she had forgotten it on mufti day.
He would not have expected it back because she is his friend and he was just glad he could help her.
Surely teaching genourousity is more important .

charlize · 11/03/2004 07:06

Robin, Your dd may have been unable to buy a magazine that she wanted, but instead she has helped out a really good friend, perhaps if you explain it to her this way the money won't seem as important.

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robinw · 11/03/2004 07:47

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charlize · 11/03/2004 08:05

I just know if it were my son he would give his last penny to help out a friend. And I would rather have him that way than be more interested in material things than helping out a friend with a couple of quid.
Sounds like you have other issues with this girl than just the money.
Sorry if I sound harsh but Iam quite surprised you would get so upset over 2.50. Perhaps this girl will help your dd out someday.
I have actually found my ds taking money out of his money box on mufti days and pe days even though I give him the money needed. When I asked him why, he said it was so if any of his friends forget to bring their 50 p or their drink for PE he can give them the money.
BTW he doesn't have a lot of money normally only a few pounds in his money box. He saves up for trump cards but would prefer to help a friend out.
And they do the same for him. But the first girl who he gave the 50 p to on mufti day had actually bitten him several days earlier. But he doesn't bear grudges and the girl was happy they were friends again

tigermoth · 11/03/2004 09:43

tbh, it would annoy me if I felt my ds was being taken advantage of. And it has happened with one of his neighbouring friends. It was not nice. Not saying this is happening here, the girl or her parents might just be scatty - forgetting a toothbrush is hardly a crime.

Robin, I'd definitly ask your dd how exactly the girl asked her for money, and what she said when your dd reminded her she owed it.That might shed light on whether she sees your dd as a soft touch.

I think I'd ask for a quiet word with the mother when you see her - just say you are strict on pocket money, so your dd is really missing her £2.50. What's more, she wants to buy something special this weekend. She's been saving up for it very hard - so could the mother remind her dd to pay her back by friday? that seems a perfectly reasonable request to me.

tigermoth · 11/03/2004 09:43

tbh, it would annoy me if I felt my ds was being taken advantage of. And it has happened with one of his neighbouring friends. It was not nice. Not saying this is happening here, the girl or her parents might just be scatty - forgetting a toothbrush is hardly a crime.

Robin, I'd definitly ask your dd how exactly the girl asked her for money, and what she said when your dd reminded her she owed it.That might shed light on whether she sees your dd as a soft touch.

I think I'd ask for a quiet word with the mother when you see her - just say you are strict on pocket money, so your dd is really missing her £2.50. What's more, she wants to buy something special this weekend. She's been saving up for it very hard - so could the mother remind her dd to pay her back by friday? that seems a perfectly reasonable request to me.

Freckle · 11/03/2004 09:49

I don't think the amount of money is relevant. The friend asked to borrow some money and one assumes that, at her age, she knows that this means she is to give the money back at a later date. It is not therefore unreasonable to expect the money to be paid back.

Having said that, if a further reminder brings no joy, I would just chalk it up to experience and warn your dd not to lend anything to this child again as she is clearly unreliable. I would expect forgetfulness, failure to pay back if the child were much younger, but, at 10, she should know what she is doing.

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robinw · 12/03/2004 03:16

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Jimjams · 12/03/2004 10:29

I don't think its acceptable to not pay money back. I think its acceptable to forget (and then pay on reminder). However I just think there are bigger things to worry about in life.

I only ever lend things that I can afford to not get back (having learned that lending things means you risk losing them). I wouldn't like to see my children short changed through being nice, so I would pay them back- but tell them if they lent the money again that they would have to accept they might lose it.

tigermoth · 12/03/2004 23:23

something similar happened to us, robin, and it affected me much more than I thought it would. The actual amount of money was trivial, but it was a build up of little things and the attitude behind it that got me hopping mad.

In our case it was a neighbouring boy my son knew. He came from a large family and they didn't take him out much. It was no trouble for him to tag along with us to the park or to see a film etc. However, the cost of these outings, even if modest, soon built up and I realised I couldn't keep doing it. I knew his parents (though not destitute) didn't have huge amounts of cash so I didn't want to ask outright for contributions, but I nicely asked if the boy could have a little pocket money if he came on a day out with us. This was reluctantly supplied, but the boy never produced any money and the parents never ever said they would give me money direct for tickets, food etc even when they knew the trip involved me spending money. The boy would not offer to pay for anything - tickets, food or ice creams and I didn't want to make a big issue of it and insist every time. But at the end of the day (usually when I'd just finished saying 'no' to my son about having a last ice cream) he would run off and buy lots of sweets out of his pocket money, and then he would try to keep them to himself. I was in a no win situation, because I did not want my son to eat lots of sweets, yet I felt the boy should share what he had. He was 8 or 9 at the time so was IMO well aware of what he was doing. He really used to smirk about it. It wound me up so much, I stopped inviting him out with us. My son no longer sees him either - he says he's fed up with him, but the boy still knocks on our door.

Funnily enough my son's best friend asked to borrow £1.00 off my son today for a charity event. My son lent him the money and I am sure he will pay it back, and if he forgets, his mother will remember - I would have no qualms about asking her, but then I think she is a nice, fair person. I just couldn't do this with the other boy's mum because I didn't have that same trust in her - or as it turned out, in her son.

JJ · 13/03/2004 19:50

Robin, I think you've done about all you can do. It might be worth explaining to your daughter, who sounds generous and kind, that not all people are like she is. So I'd reimburse her the money, as people have suggested, and take Jimjams advice and tell her that if it happens again, you won't.

Just reading this, it winds me up, too. People shouldn't be like that. But they are. All you can do is teach your daughter to be aware of it. Don't stop your daughter from being like she is, though. It's a good thing.

Tigermoth, poor boy, but you can't deal with that. I think that not seeing him was the only answer.

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robinw · 14/03/2004 08:39

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