Is it possible that my child is genetically unresponsive to all sleep interventions?

[Kittyburgh]

My 3yo DD was always a terrible sleeper. Until 18 months when, with the aid of a homeopath, she started sleeping 13-14 hours a night unbroken. This continued until DD2 came along when DD1 was 3. Now we're back to square one - a lengthy bedtime battle every night and then 3 or 4 wakings a night. Her argument is that she doesn't want to be alone because DD2 is in with us. I understand that but she doesn't seem particularly distressed, just playful even in the night. She gets on well with DD2 and is otherwise the same happy child by day. Homeopathy hasn't helped this time so reluctantly we decided to try intervening (we co-slept, breastfed til 14 months and first time round used nothing but the homeopathy to treat her sleep). To date we have tried:

• returning her back to bed each time she gets up. We have never managed to get her to sleep this way as she doesn't physically stay in bed long enough to drop off. She can go for hours and hours and mostly we don't even make it out of her room
• gradual retreat. Well, not entirely. After six weeks of sitting by her bed as she goes to sleep, it still takes her an hour or more to drop off and we haven't been able to move the chair away yet as she still just gets out of bed
• reward chart. She's never been very keen on these but the length of the night is just too long for her to understand/care about the sticker
• banana before bedtime. I was desperate, it doesn't work.

Is it possible she's just resistant to all forms of sleep training? I've read everything I can get my hands on and the only thing we haven't tried for any length of time is letting her cry. We've done it twice by way of just stopping the nonsense and getting her to sleep but it involves shutting the door and I don't feel comfortable with that (and I suspect it won't be long before she can open it).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

You can self refer. Obviously it costs.

Good luck OP, my baby was/is the same and likes to feed all eve so I don't get much of an evening. I lie down feeding him and dd lies next to me on the other side and we all fall asleep. It's dark and boring so dd just nods off. Then if possible I creep out of bed, put baby in his cot and have the chance of max 60mins 'free time' do the dishes.

I am just going with it until everyone grows out of it. But I agree with the other posters that you could focus on sorting out baby's sleeping and the rest might fall into place

I have an almost 3 year old like this, although he has never slept through the night. He seems fairly resistant to most forms of sleep training although I've never let him to cry, and wouldn't try this - but rapid return, gradual retreat etc have all failed to reduce night wakings (although did teach him to fall asleep alone). He is better now that he is not BF, and reward charts do work a bit, but only insofar as he comes through to our room a few times a night, and we remind him that he will not get his sticker if he doesn't stay in his own bed (previously he wanted to, and was often allowed to, sleep in with us) at which point he will happily take himself back to bed only to repeat the process a few hours later. We have the added complication of having recently, at his own insistence, stopped putting him in a nappy at night, so now he (legitimately I suppose) wakes once a night needing a wee. He also gets up for the day between 5.30 and 6. It is killing me! Fortunately (for me) he is my youngest and only non-sleeper - I genuinely do not think I could cope with a baby as well.

I am just hoping that as he gets older, the bribery / reward system can become more sophisticated and will work better. Or that he'll start to understand a GroClock - this worked brilliantly for my elder son (although he was never such a bad sleeper).

So no decent advice from me, but lots of sympathy.

Does sound like a behavioural thing.

I wouldn't co sleep or use chair technique.

If you can put DC2 down to sleep for 1-2hr nap you could have 'special time with mummy' with DC1. Then use that 'special time with mummy' as a tool to play off against not sleeping.

I say 'not sleeping' but actually its 'not disturbing mummy and baby'. DC1 can wake up and just lie there quiet and good, reassure her nothing interesting is happening.

OP has DD1 dropped her daytime nap? If not how long does she nap for? What time does she wake in the morning & what time are you trying to put her to bed at night?

Sounds like its most likely behavioural but just want to rule out other factors!

She dropped her nap just before she was 2. We try to get her down for 8 (earlier isn't really logistically feasible). She used to sleep 8pm- 9am (yes, those were the days!) but now it's more like 9.30/10pm til 7am (with 3 night wakings). I know this isn't enough for her because given the chance she will take a nap now but that usually makes for an even more hideous night so I try to avoid lengthy car journeys.

We also have a really tight bedtime routine - I talked to her about bedtime and the importance of everyone getting sleep (we have a groclock and have read the story many times) and she drew me a picture of the bedtime routine which she knew perfectly. It's the standard stuff - bath, stories, dim lighting, warm milk, cuddle, lights out. It just doesn't seem to wind her down any more - if anything totally the opposite (presumably because she's overtired but then that's what we're trying to sort out). She also goes to bed with a couple of toys and we've talked about cuddling them if she wakes. Every now and then she crashes out from exhaustion and will sleep through so it's definitely still possible (I cling to this).

Thanks so much for everyone's thoughts - it helps just knowing we're not alone and I'll definitely check out options for DD2.