FREE TO COLLECTOR!! 1 small boy of 20 months.

[intergalacticwalrus]

Seriously, anyone want him?

I've had it up to here with him, I really have. He is Mr Tantrum 2006 at the moment, and I don't know what to do for the best, quite honestly.

He wakes up in the morning full of beans, and doesn't stop for the test of the day, which is knackering for me at 34 weeks pg. I can cope with the non stop energy thing, but what I can't cope with is the whingeing, biting, scratching, hitting, tantrumming and head banging. If I get another sodding brick thrown at me, I'll be doing time for sure. I feel like such an effing failure, as he just won;t respond to me at all. I have tried all sorts of things, like removing him from situation where he's misbehaving, ignoring the tantrums, saying no firmly while maintaining eye contact, confiscating any thrown objects, putting him down when he hits me (if I am holding him, which is when he normally does it) putting him in a chair in the corner (doesn't work, as he gets off it within 2 seconds) I try taking him in the garden to run off any excess steam, but that's even more stressful than staying indoors, as throwing takes on a whole new meaning (big stones, mud etc, all at me) and going anywhere is a different kettle du poisson, as he just cries when we are out, almost as if he can't take on the stress of being out and about with other children etc. This means we spend a large part of the week at home, and I am desperate to talk to someone who can speak anything other than monosyllabic words.

Everything came to a head today when I took him to the HV clinic so I could get him a script for his eczema creams. She turned up 20 mins late, by which time DS had whipped himself up into a frenzy, and was screaming the place down. The clinic was full of mums with tiny babies, who were all dogging me up (I do get a certain satisfaction in giving them the "just you wait, lovey" look, mind you) When it was finally my turn, HV weighed DS, and told me he is putting on too much weight, (he's on the same centile as he was a birth, wtf?) and she has made an appointment with me to "discuss his behaviour, and to discuss coping strategies" Now, this has totally battered what little shread of confidence in my parenting ability I had, and now I feel like a big pile of shite. I have spent most of the day wondering if it's all down to my lack of ability as a mother that my son can't behave, or that there's something wrong with him, etc etc.

I am dreading the baby's birth, quite honestly. I can't cope with one, let alone 2. I know a lot of it is down to hormones (mine) and age (his) but it doesn't make it any easier. I don;t quite know what I hope to achieve by posting all this, but it feels good to write it down, and maybe someone can give me a good stragegy for coping with a willful trantrummy child!

One more thing.........

Thank fuck for CBeebies.

igw I feel for you
I am thinking of listing my ds (2.5) on eBay - no reserve, blonde & blue eyes, would look good next to garden gnomes
no words of wisdom except sod the HV and the entire healthcare system (my son was labelled autistic by the same because he would throw the fing dolly across the room rather than give the fing dolly a cup of tea). I'm 39 wks pg and just counting the days 'til the non-stop cocktail hour... oh, and I hear it gets easier WHEN??? when they go to college???

Yes, only 16 and a bit years until he leaves home..........

Kitegirl, good luck with the birth, and I'll be joining you with the non stop cocktail hour. Rock on.

Don't they keep coming back though 'cos they've got no dosh?

aaawwww nooo! ill be pining for mine if i put DD up for sale as she makes me laugh

hi igw, just wanted to say I posted a thread almost identical to yours a couple of days ago re my ds who is 21/2, except i already have no 2 (DD 16wks) so I know exactly where you are coming from. Two days ago I was on the verge of killing/ abandoning my ds, he was so appalling but today has been lovely. I was going to post this earlier just after he'd gone to bed as I was feeling quite misty eyed, we had spent a lovely half an hour singing before bedtime and it was like having my baby back. All of us in this position have to tell ourselves its only a phase and remind ourselves that its all swings and roundabouts, my MIL puts it quite well, she calls it "just getting his emotions through" and points out that they just don't know how to cope with all that they are suddenly feeling-it must be a little like PMT or mad PG hormones that make you burst into tears all the time. It does help coming on MN 'cos when you've had a bad day there is always someone who's had a good day to suggest something new and remind you of the good days. BTW- some HV talk a load of old b--t, ignore her, mine is far more sensible, when ds was kicking up a storm at clinic the othe week she just told me to ignore him as his behaviour was totally normal-as is your ds's. He probably knows something is going on with the baby being due soon and I think they all whinge when out, I have a constant chorus of "want a drink/want chocolate/want a comic/want crisps/want cake/want chicken"(he means macdonalds) I just blank it out now. Have you got anyone who can have him for a few hours so you can get some rest? If you could get him used to going out with someone else you'll find it invaluable when the baby is born, when I had DD 2/3 times a week one of our parents would take DS to the park or to their hse for tea; he thought it was a great treat and I got a breather to just sit with the baby and muster up the energy to play with him properly on his return.
if all else fails there is always Cbeebies, I reiterate your comment, thank f--k for cbeebies

Right, latest in saga with DS.

I'd had enough of him by 7.45 this morning, so shut the door of the lounge to make a cup of tea and give myself a few mins to calm my beans. Well, upon my return to the lounge, I found her had wegded the bottom of the stairgate against the door so that I couldn't open it. DP hadn't long left for work, and doesn;t have a mobile, so I couldn't ring him. All neighbours were out, so I started to panic, as the only other way into the longe is through the patio door, which was also locked. Eventually, I managed to get through to DP who raced back home, and nearly 2 hours later, we manged to free the little bugger, who, in the meantime, had managed to empty the contents of my handbag all over the floor, and now I can't find my bank card, and I'll be picking bloody coins off the floor for the next 3 years I imagine. Please tell me today will get better!

Anyway, just wanted to aks if anyone can tell me if there is a way to stop him from hitting/throwing things at me? This morning, he has thrown several plasic bricks at my face, a shoe has also been launched at my face, he has slapped me countless times, and his new favourite is pulling my hair. It's getting me down, and he has made me cry alreday today doing it (that was at 7 30, just before the lcoked door incident)

AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

inter - oh dear what a morning!!.... if my DD hits me, or anything i give her a warning of "Do it again, and you'll go to bed" she doesnt do it again, if she does it again its bed time for 2 minutes, if she does it again whilst she is in bed.. it be another 2 mins (take all the toys out of bed), and carry on till she calmed down and said sorry (kiss and cuddle).. So anything i always warn her "do it again..." You only have to say it once.

Hi there - saw your thread a few days ago and didn't post because your situation is so similar to mine and was feeling negative enough about DS already! - he's 21 months and I'm 32 wks pg.

Re your HV, ignore completely. I'm lucky and have a fantastic HV but yours sounds up her own ...

Just thought to let you know, we have started time out last week on the bottom step. I thought he'd be too young but actually it's working. Works better from me than DH though - difference I think in that DH tries to 'explain' where I just say 'right, you need to calm down' and plonk him on the step. Then I say - when you 'can play nicely you can come back'. First few times took five mins or so, now he's calm almost instantly. BTW, not doing the hug + sorry thing, don't think he'd understand that. If he wouldn't stay on the step I'd get the travel cot out but so far he has done.

Actually had a good day yesterday - didn't get hit/scrathed/kicked at all, here's hoping for today.

Hope you find your cards etc. You going to move the stairgate to somewhere that can't happen again?

Hi, 20 months can be a tough age to cope with, especially when you are heavily pregnant again.

Whoever mentioned getting a strict routine/regeime, I wholeheartedly agree.

Cut out all juice from his diet, just milk and water. Stick to weetabix for breakfast. Go to the park for an hour or so after breakfast, wear him out physically. No snacks mid morning, give him lunch at 11.30 sharp.

12 noon, a two hour nap, preceeded by a little warm milk and a cuddle in a darkened room. Sleep as well if you can. After his nap spend some time playing in his room with him and then let him watch Cbeebies after 3.00pm whilst you scoot round a do a little housework and prepare dinner.

Feed him at 4.30pm then bath and bed by 6.00pm

It will screw up your days completely but he will be well rested, get to know when he gets undivided attention, it regulates his TV and he will enjoy the routine.

The bad behaviour should decrease when he is more rested. Calmly take away anything he throws at you until he has fewer and fewer toys. Good behaviour and listening to instructions get them back.

You - eventually you will get your life back (in about 3 years!), but in the meantime you need him in a routine before your new baby arrives.

gl. - like all advice this is easier said than done !

Haven't read anything other than your first post but just wanted to say that I had all sorts of probs with my ds2 while I was pg and the nearer the end I got, the worse he got, but once ds3 had been born he settled down. I had been dreading baby arriving as thought he would get worse. They don't really get what's going on and it unsettles them, it's hard to deal with a stroppy toddler when you aren't pg don't be so hard on yourself hope things get easier soon.

Thanks everyone. To be honest, It's getting beyond a joke now. I alreday have a strict routine for him, and he never has sweets/juice, as I know this seems to make him more hyper. His days are very predictable, and he knows when his nap, lunch etc are coming up, and is generally compliant. He's a good sleeper, and will nap for 2 hours everyday.

I have been trying methods like time out with him, but it doesn't seem to work. I have been putting him in the corner of the lounge where there are no toys etc, but he will just get up again, and thinks it's a game when I put him back there. To be honest, I haven't got the energy or the patience with him anymore, and I am beginning to wonder whether it's just down to my lack od skills as a mum. I try so hard to be calm with him, but when you are constantly used as a punch bag by your 20 month old son, it kind of wears you down. He has just scratched me so hard that he has left a big cut on my face. I just cannot get him to see that this sin't acceptable behaviour, as he just thinks it's hilarious.

I am so at the end of my teher with him that I just want someone to come and take him off me, as I am starting to resent him, and I dread everyday that I have to spend with him. I am not enjoying being a mum, I don;t feel I am particularly good at it, and I just can't take another minute of it.

Inter - you know when you say to your Ds "NO!" does he laugh ?

and i think (in my way) that my 22 mths old would be too young to understand to sit in the corner till she is 2.5yrs. Best place to put him in bed for 2 mins as he knows that he cannot get out.

Yes, he laughs when I say no, and will just repeat it constantly.

hmmm you may need to find your voice as sometimes i use it and it really shakes her up (i havent got the voice till i really shout at her). What i do is that i warn her that i will call Daddy to come home if she doesnt behave as hes the one with the scary voice!! (gulp!) and my dd face drops when i mention that

that HV sounds like a nightmare walrus - why are there so many of the awful kind?

I know ruty, she has made me feel shitty from day one to be honest

Intergalactic, I could have written your post. First up - have a big virtual hug. I have been there and it's horrid, horrid, horrid. You feel like you've failed as a mother, that you're a candidate for supernanny, that no matter what you try it doesn't work but you want to be consistent but when one thing doesn't work, you try something else. it sucks.

My second was born when my first was 19 months old. He had his first tantrum at 11 months old and they escalated from there. I tried different approaches (while still trying to be consistent) and nothing work. He would hit, bite, throw, kick, scream, pull hair you name it. At 9 months, I just didn't have a the stamina to deal with it.

Some things that did work (for a while before he wised up) were:

• putting him in the corner of a room (he had tantrums so often that I couldn't use a step, I even used corners of shops). He had to face the wall. He would often just get up and I'd take him back and he's either just think it was a game or he'd get hysterical. Sometimes I'd just hold him there but that gets dangerous because he would kick and flail so much that he could hurt the baby and piss you off so much that you hold him a lot harder than you should.

But I stuck with it and eventually it did start working. The other thing I did (and I'm sure it would be frowned upon but heck, it worked) was if he still wouldn't behave, was to put him in his room and shut the door (he couldn't open it because it's a latch door). He hated that and would scream blue murder. I would wait 2 minutes and then go in and say: have you calmed down. He would invariably say no, and then kick off again. So the door would be shut and another two mins would go by and we'd repeat. We could keep it up for 30 mins. But gradually the threat of the room worked (and incidentally, it has had NO effect on his sleep - I know some people think using a room for punishment causes bad associations with the bedroom but we haven't had any dramas)

I also found my voice and if he hit or bit, I would immediately move him away from me and say VERY LOUDLY and at his eye level: YOU DO NOT HIT. And he would then be put in the corner.

On the tantrum front, the trouble at around 19 months was that there was no rhyme or reason for the tantrum (well nothing obivous to me anyway). Now that's he 2.5 there's always a reason e.g. trying to leave somewhere or turning the tv off. But one thing which I wish I'd used more of and didn't (because I thought I was ignoring his bad behaviour and that it should rather be dealt with) was distraction. if you see a tantrum about to kick off, distract. Lie through your teeth if you have to but distract. 'Look there, there's a giant bunny. Oh, he's gone. Let's go see if we can find him..' etc

I use that all the time now and it works brilliantly.

The tantrums got worse after the baby arrived and now they come in waves. We'll have weeks of angel child and then the devil emerges once again (we're in a devil week right now).

The other thing that was useful was to try and think like a toddler. So I know my son is a sensitive child. he can't cope with lots going on around him. He needs lots of notice and preparation if the circumstances are going to change ie, we need to leave a place or go out or have bathtime etc. So I've tried to be far more accomodating of this and get his buy in. I try to involve him a lot more and not just tell him what is going to happen.

I give open ended choices. 'Do you want to put your shoes on or should mom do it'. I stick to my guns - for example, I'll say: would you like cornflakes or cheerios for breakfast. He'll say cheerios. Once he gets the cheerios, he wants cornflakes. I say, no you asked for cheerios. he then proceeds to try and tip the cheerios on the floor. I take them away and say: once you've calmed down, you can eat breakfast. If he still refuses to eat them, I say, fine, your breakfast is there for you to eat. If you don't eat it or tip it on the floor, there is nothing till lunchtime. And I stick by that. he gets nothing till lunchtime, but I do bring lunchtime forward, otherwise his blood sugar levels drop too much and his behaviours worsens.

I try to understand what frustrates him and when he is in a full blown tantrum, I don't shout or hit or anything that will fuel it. I ignore and sometimes if he's completely beside himself, I hold him to help him calm down.

Hang in there. I know it's tough. Try to get some time on your own for a break. It'll help you calm down and see things through his eyes. Good luck.

Hi again - just wanted to give you a big virtual ! It sounds like you need one. My DS is in a very rigid routine too and although I have done everything 'by the book' I stilll get all the tantrums and everything else.

Post from JoshandJamie sounds very sensible. I think the general theme is hang in there, it will start working. The trick with 'time out' for me is complete withdrawal of attention including shouting but instant reward for calming down (not a hug though, more just being allowed to return to playing). Also when you say 'no' do you shout/raise your voice? - I find this completely ineffective for DS. what works better is when I lower the tone of my voice and go almost 'super calm' - he knows then I mean business. I think they pick up on high stress too and that's why it gets worse as the day goes on.

Do you get time out for yourself - it really sounds like you could do with some time off or to go out somewhere his behaviour isn't too much of a problem (like a big field) with some friends who understand your situation and won't judge you by what he does.

Out of interest - have you tried a travel cot? It did work with DS while he was doing a lot of the head bashing thing as he couldn't climb out and the sides were soft.

Intergalacticwalrus.

From all your responses it apears you are doing fab. Just hang in ther with the discipline. But every Mummy needs a break at some point. Is there any chance you could get him a nursery place for one full day a week ? It will give you a break and him.

Do it now and he will be settled by the time your new baby arrives and he won't feel pushed out.

i haven't had my 23 month old weighed at HVs since he was 8 months just to avoid HV! I have weighed him at home and checked in the red book, before you all think i am a neglectful mother. I would just go to gp for the eczema cream and eradicate hopeless HV from your life.

My DS refused(no thanks,mummy) to be weighed at his Two Yr review. He's three in Sept! So the last time he was plonked on a scales was almost 18mths ago!We had the whole stress thing with those charts when he was a baby so my HV and I aren't really into them that much. He's tiny with the appetite of a teenager so I prob won't weigh him ever again!!!!
Anyway on the subjest in question... He didn't seem to be doing the terrible two thing a yr ago, so when recently i've had everyone in Waitrose stare at me because my "angel" was kicking his pg mummy and screaming like I was killing him(oh the irony) I found it impossible to figure out what to do. I thought somehow the stroppy gene hadn't been passed on from Mummy(I was a horrid teenager!) I'm not suggesting you're stroppy IGW, but I'm sending a virtual hug too, because I think you're doing a great job,your HV should be supporting you to deliver your brand of parenting and as I know myself, no amount of organic fruit and veg,plain water and sensible sleep routines will over ride the fact that kids this age can be terrors. I know I've been no practical help, because I've done it by the book and was smug for a while that it worked, then WHAM, a child who not only threw remakable tantrums,but is very strong,both phyisically and mentally!

Good luck with the babe!

intergalacticwalrus I think we've all been there. My ds2 has just hit the small child BIG attitude phase of life. I find that isolating him in his room works enough to calm us both down. Oh and as for the gin and tonic. Tip that I heard a chef give. Ice cube in gin, shake of gin, then put it in tonic with the ice and a slice and the smell of the juniper will make you think you having a real g&t. I did that will pregnant with ds2. Don't ever think you're alone with these little monkey's of ours. Your not and I'd quite happily trade mine in many a day

Just wanted to reiterate that I think you are doing really well and that it is sooo hard when pregnant or any time to deal with a toddler.

Re the time out, I found it really escalated the behaviour for ds and something else worked much much better, I timed myself out. If ds threw something at me I would say clearly and calmly "Balls are for throwing" and go and get a ball. If he did it again I would move away from him. If he cried or followed me I would explain "I am going to be over here until you stop throwing...stones, bricks, blocks, teddy, the remotes etc" If he started playing nicely I would immediately move back over "That's great, balls are for throwing" or "Thank you for putting the stones down, I love the way you are putting them in the bucket now" If he kept on throwing them I would keep my distance, not make any eye contact, make a big deal out of the dog and what a good girl she was as she wasnt throwing, biting, kicking, hitting etc. I did this everytime he did something I didnt like, if I was holding him I would put him straight down and move away. At calm times I would model, talk about and praise gentle play and touching. I had tried time out, quiet time, calm but firm "We dont throw" you name it for months. When I withdrew my attention it literally worked within the week. I was really consistent and extremely calm and like Josh and Jamie says, I tried to give realistic choices and then stuck to them. DS is 22mths and at the moment things are much much much better but we still have days where he tantrums, in all honesty the ignoring still works fairly quickly and consistently on those days.

Mmm, like the idea of the ignoring. I might try sitting on the stairs myself when he is on one, it may help! Cheers.

Incidentally, he has been angelic to the point of sickly today, just because Daddy is home which I am sure makes DP think I am some unhinged neurotic psychopath.