Badly Behaved and Angry 4 year old

[QueenSconetta]

DD1 is 4.2 and I am beginning to really struggle with her behaviour. She constantly is doesn't listen, messes around, interrupts despite being asked to wait, is destructive to things and is loud and inappropriate and then when you try to have a calm conversations with her she is just so cheeky and intensly angry that you couldn't get a word in edge ways.

She has little attention span when she is with me, although nursery and her childminder say that she is well behaved, articulate and polite there.

It has got the stage where I don't want to take her anywhere because I just can't deal with the stress, e.g. We are not going to my Mum's for dinner today because she has started to consistently misbehave at the table, need to be disciplined, then it becomes as miserable experience for everyone, and we came straight home from church this morning rather than staying for coffee/play because she was carrying on, given 3 or 4 requests then warnings to stop, didn't, then went mad when I said right home. This sounds horrible as I type it but I am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with her.

I don't think she doesn't receive enough positive attention, because it started before her sister was born/on way (DD2 now 7.5 months) and I have always been careful to try and ensure I spent time with her.

Any ideas? I am really getting to the end of my tether and I don't feel that staying in looking at 4 walls is good for anyone.

Hiya QueenSconetta

"This sounds horrible as I type it but I am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with her"

I don't think by any means what you've said sounds horrible, but have you ever thought about getting her assessed?

Did it start before you were pregnant? I ask because you say she is fine with other people. I wonder if she is jealous.

I am now, Asia. I don't think she shows typical behaviours of anything in particular but I don't think it can do any harm. I am going to the GP hopefully tomorrow and will mention it then.

End 76, yes it did start before I was pregnant. Thankfully she loves her sister. She very intelligent, which might be part of the problem.

It is typical 4 year old behaviour but x100 Isywim.

No sure start centre, so any ideas gratefully received.

I suppose I don't know it's extreme, I only see that none of her contemporaries behave in nothing like the same way.

I have tried rewards charts but they didn't make a real difference. Not sure I have heard of marble jar, how does this work?

It sounds like my DS who is 7. He interrupts, has no sense of timing, impulsive, angry, inability to concentrate, lacks focus unless it's something he likes, procrastinates etc . Terrible/silly behaviour at school. We also had issues at church this morning. We are currently going through the process of having him assessed for ADD/ADHD.

You have hit the nail on the head "none of her contemporaries behave like that". This is the conslucion we came to - everyone else seems to have matured, DS is year 3, youngest in year as born very end of school year/summer holidays and was prem he was due August 26th but he is maturing much slower yet more and more is expected of him. It's really hard.

Good luck,there are a few threads on special needs children section.

HTH.

What you say in your OP could be the ranting of an exasperated parent of a wearing but perfectly normal four year old. It could also very easily have been written by the parent of a child with PDA (Pathalogical Demand Avoidance) or High Functioning Autism/Asperger's Syndrome. Until you have in depth experience of the behaviour and the strategies used to try and manage them, it is virtually impossible to differentiate between them.

The key is whether you think your child is just hard work and feisty or that there is genuinely something that is out of the ordinary and she's really struggling to cope with the demands place on her.

If the latter is the case I would strongly suggest approaching you GP and asking to be referred for an assessment.

Don't be put off by the fact that she behaves beautifully in school and with other adults away from home. That is very much to be expected with Autism Spectrum disorders, including PDA.

Google Tony Attwood and read what he says about girls with Asperger's so you can see if it rings any bells for you.

My DS1 was like this, but seemed to mature as he got to school age, starting school really helped and he's now a happy well adjusted Y1, who still pushes it occasionally but not like he did. It is a phase, keep going and she will come through it. Just be careful you don't end up only giving her attention when she's naughty, make sure you really praise her when she gets it right, and don't cut yourself off from people. It will pass, she's just strong minded :-)

be careful comparing her to peers. I know several families with very easy going biddable kids. Ds wasn't. At. All. I thought he or I must have it all wrong.
I found it very hard, especially when they gave slightly 'pat' suggestions as to what they did that worked.

For example, one dad of three lovely easy going girls said that when he talked to his girls about bad language, he explained what the nasty words meant (at their level) and the girls didn't want to say nasty things like that so they chose not to. HA HA HA If I did that with ds, he would have then chosen to say them MORE because they were naughty words.

So, while she may need assessing, she may just be testing the boundaries a lot at the moment, and being very 4. If you are a book person, I found 2 books very helpful 'Raising your spirited child' made me see the positive sides to his behaviour, and gave me good strategies for dealing with it. And 'How to talk so your children Listen' (there are a couple of books around with similar titles, and I can't remember the author - Audrey something?) She was very good at making us look at our whole parenting style and becoming more child friendly and positive, which we thought we already were!

It was really when dd1 came along, who is an easy going, biddable child, that I realised it wasn't me, but rather ds very strong personality. He is now 11 and fab, bright, funny interesting, and still challenges every boundary, he will no doubt make a great lawyer. He is a leader, and he was even at 4, and leaders don't like being led, even by their parents!

^^ This,

I was also worried that other kids seemed more chilled until DS2 popped along, and is the easiest going person going, and we didn't do anything different. Like steppemum said then you realise that the spirited one just has a much stronger personality. Try and be kind to yourself and DD, she'll get there, if she can do it at nursery, she'll also do it for you too.

I am so thankful we had DS2 otherwise I'd have been berating our parenting etc. until he finally 'got it'.

Thanks all, I will have a look into all your suggestions. I try very hard not to compare her to her best friend in particular, she is much more laid back than DD1 as her parents are much more laid back trepan me and DH. I am quite fiery so I expect some of from her but maybe just not to the extent we're getting at the moment. Now in the calm I feel bad for getting cross because she is playing a wonderful imaginative game and being lovely, she can be sometimes, it's a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde situation.

OP I have three kids, the two eldest are girls. I just wanted to say that the most challenging time for me with them was when they were both four! No terrible twos, threes were OK and fours was when all the challenging behavior came out. They are now 13 & 10 and fine, normal typical kids. I'm not sure if all this assessment etc. is necessary at such a young age. Maybe she just needs some fun time with you when you don't need her to "behave". I also did not read the whole thread so sorry if I missed something...
Many of my friends found their girls challenging at four, I think the fact that they are so verbal and start to understand the power of language at this age can be part of it.

I came on to behaviour threae precisely because im having issues with my 4 and 3/4 year old son!! He's been misbehaving for a while now and last straw was on Saturday. we were at a community kids party...by the end he was so annoyed at not winning any prizes . he couldn't handle his anger and threw chair over on the floor, shouted abuse at me. I was so upset at this and embarrassed. even a friend had noticed his behaviour has changed over the last few months. I put it down to me having had a baby in November but surely its no excuse or reason to misbehave
good luck OP it does sound like a behaviour issue rather than anything else. hope it all improves for you

Hi everyone. I am knew on here and I am really hoping someone can share strategies.
My son is 4yrs and 3 months, for the last 2 years I have been trying to ask the health visitors for help, without much success. My son is awaiting an appointment with the community pediatrics. This I had to fight for.
My sin can be do loving and gentle and at the flick of a switch his behaviour changes, hitting kicking, spitting, sporadic outburst of words and swear words. Which he does not hear at home. F### 61 times in 8 min whilst in a hyper manic state. He can not follow instruction and can not process anything, it is so hard to watch your son have no control of his actions and not be able to calm him down.
There are apparent control issues and he will fight against you, he will try to re direct by telling you his legs are not working or his arms are to heavy.
We can not go out for meals any more with him and it is hard visiting friends or relatives as you never know what is coming, it is not his fault as you can see his facial expression change and pupils dilate.
In the supermarket he will shout at anyone that comes close to my trolley, in the car he will shout at people walking past.
My son can tell you how to cross the road safe and will give others a row for nit doing so this also goes for shouting , hitting and so on however unable to do so himself. Really worried as hoping it is just a stage and don't want there to be anything wrong.
Does anyone have any suggestions????