5 year old daugher presenting challenging behaviour

[lisenpete]

hi this is the first time i have posted, i am desperate to offload and see what others think. My DD is 5 and a half and has always been a little over sensitive and a deep thinker, shes not been one for toys or playing with others, preferring her own company or that of adults. Lately we have seen some undesirable behaviour developing i will just list it for now
obsessive about lining items up/lining up her friends
bossy,shouting behaviour at other kids
demanding things her own way all the time and bursts into uncontrollable sobbing if we say no
a need to control play
an obsession with being first or winning
crying if someone looks at her in a way she feels is not right or for example today someone sticking their tongue out was met with hysterical crying
ignoring us as parents when we talk to her about anything, how her day is etc or if we ask her a question or to do something
attitude aimed more at me than her dad when i speak to her about anything
a general air of unhappiness at times

i am finding it hard as she doesn't really respond to any discipline measures we put into place be it talking gently or asking her to go to her room to think about what shes done. She s also very clumsy, the school thought she may have dyspraxia as she had a lack of social skills when in reception which we spoke to the doctor about and we are still on a waiting list nearly 18 months later. School is no longer concerned as they say her social skills have caught up with the others in her class. Academically she is ahead of her peers. She cries to have friends round to visit after school then wont play with them when they are here. She has a 3 and a half year old sister and we have another child due in June. Sleeping is fine, no issues apart from bedtime we can have problems, she will complain about not being tired and make excuses, not that unusual i know. Eating is fine too, shes a great eater not fussy and eats all her meals.
I am really not sure what is typical behaviour in a 5 year old and whether this has been seen in anyone elses child. My hubby and i are arguing a lot, he is usually the passive one who excuses the behaviour bt this evening he had had enough and i thought he had overreacted so we argued again....i need to do something!!!

Do you think she could feel angry/ excluded by having a sister so near in age and another baby coming? Just a thought but she might feel very out of control inside and expected to be a big girl

shes very close to her sister and i wouldn't say we put a lot of demands on her regarding being a big girl, plus she displayed this very emotional sensitive side before her sister arrived, like i say she was a very quiet girl with no real interest in her peers, now shes at an age where she seems to like the idea of having friends she doesn't want to know them unless they are doing what she wants all the time, she has a fear of being 'naughty' and an extreme reaction to noise, cheering etc aswell. I feel completely exhausted with the reactions she gives me to everyday conversation.

Hm. My DS who now has an Asperger’ diagnosis did similar things at that age except for the clumsiness – had to be in control of play, needed to be first, lined things up (and treated people the same as things), bossiness, reacted badly to noise, problems with following instructions and holding a conversation that he didn’t start. However he was more aggressive, instead of crying he hit children who didn’t do what he wanted or lashed out in frustration. And his problems were more obvious in school.

You might find that quite concrete discipline measures work better. We did a lot of “count-to-three-and consequence” with DS. The instructions had to be very specific so he knew exactly what I wanted him to do; the consequence had to be small and immediate (I made a mental list of possible consequences!); I had to be sure to do the consequence if he didn't do what I asked by “three” ; the count had to be steady, so if I thought he needed extra time I’d count to ten instead. That gave him enough time to process what I’d said and do it. And also, do remember to pile on the friendly attention as well, and pick a few useful behaviours to reward, and praise her whenever she does anything halfway good.

Following a routine may help. Your DD may find it easier to do things in the same order each day (especially if she likes lining things up!)

Some kids are not good at free play with other kids, so you might need to organise the playdates a bit more. Keep them short and structured, and tell your DD in advance what the structure will be. Include a game or activity that your DD will enjoy and join in easily - when DS's friends came round I used to get the kids to ice and decorate biscuits.

And if your DD is wearing you out then no harm to go back to the GP and push that referral to CAMHS.

to be honest aspergers had crossed my mind too, my husband is very against going back to the GP as i don't think he wants a diagnosis, its easier for him to think of it as a phase whereas i'd rather know what we are dealing with. She can be very good at times but its small things that happen so frequently in succession thats tiring and wearing. She likes to watch old top of the pops shows on bbc4, if theres a song she likes its rewound several times, it has to start at precisely the right moment for her and it would carry on all night if we let her, if she wants to watch it she will regardless of who else is watching tv, she begged for her friend to come round the other evening and so we had her over and she proceeded to ignore her...i realise this can sound petty but when its constant all evening from when she comes home from school i feel like i dn't get chance to enjoy having her around.

Lisenpete, I came on to look for help or advice as my 5 year old daughter sounds very similar to yours. School are not worried about her either but she seems so unhappy at the moment I'm at a bit of a loss . It's just reassuring to know she's not alone!!

I totally understand so many of the behaviors you described, especially the song thing; sometimes she will sit in the car once we've arrived and wait for a particular bit of a song to end before she will get out. It doesn't sound like much but is maddening when you're caught up in doing day to day things.

If you've had any advice or read anything that's been helpful since you posted please let me know

Girls with Asperger's are often missed because they learn to mask their symptoms so competently, especially in school, but it takes an enormous toll on their well being.

Get hold of a copy of this book by Tony Attwood and see how much is describes your DD.

Lots of people have an irrational fear of 'labelling' children. In reality, giving a child a diagnosis makes it a lot easier for them to get the support and understanding they desperately need to succeed, especially in school.

I'd ask for your GP to chase up the referral.

thank you for your responses and DReamingaboutsleep will definately keep you posted, I have a Doctors appointment Tuesday so will keep you posted. We have had some other worrying behaviours since, including an obsessive need to be touching her dad, she asks him to kiss her on the mouth and wants to cuddle and hug him all the time, asking her to marry him but from what i have read up on this is quite normal in girls of this age so i am not too concerned, obviously there is the embarrasment factor but we are being diplomatic in our responses and hopefully she will pass out of this phase fairly quickly....:-/