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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Alternatives to time out for 2 yr old.

29 replies

nearlythree · 24/07/2006 21:26

Time out/naughty step just doesn't work with our 2 yr old - she just gets loads of attention for not staying there and she fights so hard that I stop enforcing it before it gets really violent. She's a climber and today she pulled me by the hair in an attempt to get me off the sofa so she could climb it! As I was feeding newborn ds at the time...I am worried for her safety and also his and she has to learn to listen when I say no, but I don't know what rewards/consequences to use - sticker chats are beyond her. Her sister never did these things at this age and it's a bit of a learning curve. I'v eloads of books but they seem to expect a level of verbal understanding that she doesn't yet have. Can anyone help?

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sparklemagic · 24/07/2006 21:59

have you got a playpen? maybe this might be worth a try for moments like this, it's almost like 'time out' but with you in the room and in sight; she can have plenty of toys/teddies in there and it could just save your sanity for the odd moment when she does something like the hair pulling?

She cuold also be safe in there if you need to go into another room to cool down for a minute...

I'm sure this will be a short lived phase - as her verbal skills improve no doubt so will her ability to tell you what she wants rather than manhandle you out of the way! As you say she does need to learn to listen when you say no and I think the consequence of being plonked in the playpen may make her realise that she will lose her freedom if she doesn't listen! don't know what you think of this....maybe she's such a climber she would climb out?!

Original poster

nearlythree · 24/07/2006 22:14

Hi, sparklemagic, this would be a great idea, but she can already climb out of both a playpen and a travel cot - in fact she was only 18 mo or so when she first did it!

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Lio · 24/07/2006 22:15

Don't know but will be keeping an eye on this for tips for ds...

curtaintwitcher · 24/07/2006 22:16

nearly three..is she just 2 or older?

shazronnie · 24/07/2006 22:19

don't know really, but I would keep saying stuff like "that makes mummy feel sad / cross" when she is naughty, and obviously praising when she is good. she prob understands more than you think!

sparklemagic · 24/07/2006 22:26

yes, I did wonder about that....I would bin the naughty step, you're right, it can be more of a fun game being put back on it all the time, than a consequence...

I don't want to be stating the bleedin' obvious here as you're obviously an experienced mum, but I think you are doing it right if you:

Cut her some extra slack due to arrival of baby (not less)
Ignore as much as is humanly possible
Distract her as much as is humanly possible
As a last resort if she is violent, or in danger of hurting the baby, or is just beside herself and won't listen to reason, try time out in her room for 2 mins - hold the door shut.

We did use time out with our DS when he was two years old, only had to do it a few times but it does I believe give you genuine 'cool down' time and gives her a consequence for really naughty stuff.

Aother thing, I used to make little mountains out of the sofa cushions for DS to climb, might be a legitimate outlet for her climbing while you are feeding ds?!

sparklemagic · 24/07/2006 22:31

meant to say, I realise your post said 'alternatives to time out' but wondered if you were meaning time out on the naughty step, so though it was worthwhile posting about time out in her room instead, sorry if you have discounted this already!

Original poster

nearlythree · 24/07/2006 22:39

Thanks for all the comments. Dd2 was two in March. She's a little sweetie but so different from her sister - not a bad thing, but I've never dealt with this before. Dd1 didn't turn a hair when dd2 was born whereas dd2 was scared of ds. Also she was taken into hospital the day after he was born and came out when ds and I did so she's been through it, and has also had chickenpox since being home. Dh and I think that maybe she's been given too much slack as we have been quite indulgent of her. She's not agressive, just reckless - the hair pulling was just to get me out of her way - but I can't have that with a newborn. Alos we hope she will be starting pre-school after October half term and obviously sh ewill need to have some self-control.

Putting her in a different room won't work as she loves every room we have - it'd be a real treat for her in a way! And her own bedroom won't work as she has only just started liking it since we moved in December. Plus I can't be physical with her whilst I'n=m feeding.

I'm aware that dd2 has had an awful lot to contend with in the past six months or so but I di want to be able to leave the room and not be scared she will break her neck!

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SittingBull · 24/07/2006 22:42

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Original poster

nearlythree · 24/07/2006 22:52

sittingbull, we had no toys in there that she could use as a step. She literally took her weight on her arms and swung her leg up until she could get it over the top,and then rolled her body over - straight onto our wooden floor! Thankfully she was fine but it really gave me a scare!

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CADS · 25/07/2006 10:30

Can you strap her into a stroller as a time out, for behaviour you can't ignore?

Not convenient when you feeding but it needs to be done. I let things slide with ds because I didn't want to interupt dd's feed, boy do I regret it.

aviatrix · 25/07/2006 12:44

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monkey · 25/07/2006 13:35

I disagree with that aviatrix. I have a ds the same age & he's going through a phase of headbutting (thanks Zidane) and chucking toys at his brothers. He knows it hurts. I have started to do a time out (2 minutes in downstaris loo) then he comes out and says sorry to his brothers. Luckily for him they don't beat him back. But he knows alright that it hurts.

And I wouldn't put hair pulling in the 'natural curiosity' catagory either. Maybe a slice of bread in the video but not hair pulling. ouch

Seona1973 · 25/07/2006 13:45

I dont have a specific room for putting dd in when she has been naughty - I just put her out of the room I am in and hold the door shut. She does not like it at all!! After a couple of minutes I open the door, tell her why she was out out the room and get her to say sorry and then she can get a cuddle.

madmarchhare · 25/07/2006 15:30

Bribery? 'If youre a good girl while I feed ds, you can have xxx', then lots of praise if she succeeds.

Its possibly going to be difficult the first few times, as you say youre already feeding, but if you are consistent she should get it.

Ive been near to pulling my hair out listening to myself say the same things over and over again to DS(2.7) but slowly and surely I can see light.

Original poster

nearlythree · 25/07/2006 19:27

Thanks for all the further comments. I have to agree with monkey - I am fine with yoghurt being used as finger paints but not hairpulling whilst I am feeding ds. And it's not a case of punishing, but setting boundaries. Kids that have no boundaries are unhappy, and when dd2 starts pre-school in a couple of mo I can't see the other parents taking the 'natural curiosity' line if dd2 pulls their kid's hair. Plus ds is very small and she needs to learn how to be gentle with him.

Don't think she quite has the verbal skills to take bribery yet, although it works a treat for dd1 who is four esp. sticker charts. Roll on the day when dd2 gets the hang of them!

Spoke to my hv today who recommends having a trwat bag of activities for both dds that only comes out during feeds; ignoring as much attention-seeking as possible; and two-minute time outs in the hall for really dangerous behaviour.

btw monkey, don't know if you remember me but I used to be ionesmum.

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accessorizequeen · 25/07/2006 22:55

Sounds much like my 2.7 ds, timeout on naughty step completely useless half of the time & they make it look so easy on Supernanny etc. Do you leave the door open or shut it? I find it only works (tho still only half the time) if I shut the door when he's on the step - I'm only a few steps away, but having me shut away from him seems to make the point. Even if he gets off the step, and bangs on the door for me! Agree with you that setting boundaries is the point, definitely, they need them just as much as we do! My ds is a happier more settled boy the firmer I am with him. Would have said also that bribery a perfectly reasonable option for 2yr old, time with you reading a book, episode of a dvd, story CD etc? Special toys that only come out when you're feeding, saw that suggested on another thread?

BoilingHotFrayedKnot · 25/07/2006 23:03

Nearlythree DS is the same age and just starting to get the bribery (perhaps we should call it incentive scheme? ) thing, as long as I keep it very simple and very clear.

So it might be worth trying.

I do find if he is already getting het up he tunes out and if he's in a silly mood he forgets really quickly as well, so I have to remind him several times about what we are trying to achieve!

aviatrix · 26/07/2006 10:40

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monkey · 26/07/2006 13:13

oh wow, yes. I'm rubbish at keeping up with people, so it's very exciting indeed for a hello from someone. how are you? Apart from having your hands full with a hair pulling climber of course?

youknowwhat · 26/07/2006 14:18

Instead of the naughty step, I put DS1 in our front hall. It os a small corridor whith a door at the end. No toy or anything dangerous / exciting. I can close the door and turn my back to him so that he doesn't get any attention during that time.
Also, after the 2 ~ 3 min, I am waiting until he has stopped screaming for at least 15 seconds. I don't want him to think that he is going out thank to that and I am also sure that he has calmed down.

Original poster

nearlythree · 26/07/2006 15:31

Thanks everyone for the further suggestions. I have lots of good ideas to think about, and it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Aviatrix, I wonder how many children you have and their ages? I have three under five - if you have had similar maybe you could give us some ideas on how you set boundaries in this situation? My eldest has just left pre-school and I know that had another child pulled her hair there I would have been very angry, and that the school will not tolerate such behaviour from dd2. I agree she is too young to empathise but not too young to understand cause and effect of hair pulling = upsetting someone. I don't like the naughty step (we would call it the time out step) and I think it is way overused by Jo Frost in her programmes but there is a need for children to have somewhere to cool off, and they do need to know that certain behaviour will make them excluded by other people if they are to make friends. Dd1 has had the same upbringing and, as an example, she has started to be interested in issues of global justice and poverty. IME using bribery doesn't result in a selfish child providing it is not used for everything, and you use loads of praise, love and warmth as much as possible.

Hi, monkey! I'm fine, we now have baby ds as well as the dds. Dd2 has been unwell but hopefully we are through that now. How are you? I'm not on mnet very often so it's weird that you spotted this thread!

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juuule · 26/07/2006 15:50

Forget the naughty step. How about giving her lots of attention before you need to feed baby. Then saying something like 'okay that was fun, I will just feed baby now and then maybe we can do some more'. If she's feeling a bit left out then putting her in isolation or ignoring her isn't going to help imo. Can you get her to help with anything and try to make her feel included in things. A stay in hospital, new baby, she hasn't been well...can understand her feeling a bit bolshy.

juuule · 26/07/2006 15:56

Wow- just realised she's also had a house move to deal with. Such a lot in a short space of time.

Original poster

nearlythree · 26/07/2006 17:08

juule, she gets loads of attention, believe me. As already explained we don't do the naughty step, and she isn't bolshy - just reckless. I'm only concerned for her safety and that of others. Ignoring does help as she used to cover her eyes whenever she saw ds, she'd even walk into things, but we didn't make a big thing of it and she soon stopped.

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