DN, 2.9, won't eat - ideas to help please?

[Nancery]

Am hoping to be able to give my sister some help / ideas on how to handle this. Will tell you what she says then add my two penneth at the end.

My neice won't eat. They have tried sticker charts, outright bribery and shouting but nothing works. She drinks a lot of milk but has 'no interest in food' and apparently will sit with her stomach rumbling before she eats, and then often won't.

My view is unfortunately this (but obviously this is all tricky to say, to varying degrees.) She does eat, but it seems to be mainly rubbish (biscuits, Quavers etc.) I have hinted this may be the case but told it most certainly is not.
The few times I have been there while she has been given her dinner it seemed to be either a tin of something (pasta chicken and sweetcorn) or a sandwich (latter is fair enough at lunchtime, of course.) I also suspect that food may be a control thing; they say they ignore it if she says she doesn't want her dinner but they actually do a lot of exaggerated sighs / pursed lips / tutting etc.
She is also, kind of affectionately, referred to as 'awkward' or 'a madam' and compared unfavourably to her 'easy' one year old sister. I raised the last two points with my mother though and she was adamant this would not be the case and that DN has never had an interest in food.

Raising the theories I have would result in lots of drama (no matter how tactful) so want to try and suggest constructively ways to help before the poor little bugger is sent to bed in disgrace yet again.

Sorry, but I'll be blunt. It's not really any of your business.

My own DD can be difficult with food, especially when tired, and sometimes I am so desperate for her to eat that if she will eat a packet of Quavers, so be it. She has medical issues.

My DSis was a terrible, fussy eater when little and my DMum tore her hair out. When she got into her 30s she was finally diagnosed with food allergies.

Both DMum and I were/are subjected to a barrage of unwanted advice and comments. All it did/does is make us feel like shit parents.

My ds1 is a bit like this and always has been. If she is more 'difficult', this could indicate underlying issues. Ds1 has mild asd, mild adhd, sensory issues which had meant he's always been fussy. The first thing to cut out us the unhealthy snacks. Then give her food which she likes but a range of it. There's a repertoire of meals ds likes. Exercise helps his appetite. He can't eat at others houses or eat out, but we still do these things and he can take it or leave it. At home, I do force him to eat a reasonable amount, but try in a non emotional way. Just matter of fact say he needs to eat that, that and that on the plate (not finish) before he goes. This is usually the protein and veg.

No offence taken, it's that my sister has actually asked me, I'm not just butting in!

Thanks Marigold. It's tricky as. I am not entirely sure quite how they handle it. What they say they do has sometimes looked very different.

Also, I do prefer to give ds1 his main meal at lunch as this is when he has more energy to eat it. When tired in evening, it's much more of a struggle.

Does she eat enough variety of foods over the day/week? My 3 year old is pretty fussy but will eat for eg. cereal, fruit and yoghurt for breakfast, a cheese or hummus sandwich or beans on toast and fruit for lunch, drinks plenty of milk. Dinner is an issue as he won't eat most "cooked" food (curry/lasagne/roast) and won't touch any vegetables, but we all eat together as a family and he just eats nothing Sometimes I will do something I know he will eat for dinner - cheesy pasta, sausages and chips, tinned ravioli - but generally if he doesn't want dinner I don't make a fuss.

He's skinny but growing, and over the day/week he eats bread and cereal, dairy products, fruit and sometimes some meat or fish. I reckon he's getting all he needs from that. Plus I give him a vitamin.

She's at pre school during the week. I will ask my sister what she eats there. She has, to varying degrees, eaten here relatively well which may have been timing.

You can just pass on advice, they can choose what they do or don't follow. Small healthy snacks are fine. Carrot, apple, dried apricots, nuts. Try and cut refined sugar add it can depress appetite for anything else. I can sympathize with crisps. At times when ds was at his worst, I would give them as at least something like the lady above.

lily, thanks - I will ask.

You are all being helpful giving me pointers as I feel a bit too involved / critical to be impartial to necessarily ask non leading questions - so thanks!!

if your sister, the child's mother, has asked for your advice then give it! And may I suggest that the advice would be some professional help - is there a real life version of the supernanny thing? The child is exerting the only control she has, as they do.

also if she's been filled with milk of course she won't want food.

Abidec vits in juice for breakfast!

SpecialSubject I have just said precisely that!! Have also asked her exactly what she does eat and drink over 24 hours which may make things look a bit clearer.

She sent me a text referring to her as 'that little shit of a daughter' and asking what I'd do (my ds eats well but I am aware this may largely be due to luck and also could change so am not smug!) so think things need to change!

How about a schedule of food/drink. In my opinion, she only needs milk once a day really, could be twice if they want to give before bed, but I'd stopped that well before 3. I would address the way she speaks about her kid. That's really not on.

They could try a schedule for a week eg. 7am breakfast, 10.00am snack of some apple and carrot sticks and glass milks, 12.30 Cooked lunch which they know she likes, 3.30 snack of rice cake and raisins, 5.30 cheese on toast with cucumber/apple/tomatoes and yogurt. Just try for a week and see if it helps. A week is not so daunting.

Just had a text and she said they have cut out snacks and milk. While I am not wholly convinced (recent pic on Facebook with a bottle, for example) I shall give benefit of the doubt.

Will suggest the schedule and see what she thinks (yes, I agree with the way they talk about her, it's stuff like that that clouds my judgement!)

Thanks again, will report back!

Sister says "She goes from thing to thing saying she likes it then doesn't like it, it's like she's playing a game all the time"

Yep, it's control. Now how the hell do I tell them my perceptions of how they are with her, especially comparing to her sister, without causing a ruckus...?! Tempting as that is, it won't help anybody!

Time for another thread perhaps as am too wound up to necessarily just say things that will help as opposed to hinder...

Hide all the crisps, biscuits and milk?

hiding crisps etc won't help if she is a resistant eater, see the thread entitled resisant eater for more info which may help your sister.

Thanks Storynanny.
I am actually now convinced its a control thing, unfortunately though my Dsis and her idiot boyfriend seem bent on 'sorting it out' with threats / sending to bed etcetera.
Will check that thread out shortly though, thank you

They could get her involved with the cooking.

My ds (admittedly a human dustbin) loves getting involved. He'll sit on the side & stir the pan, or watch you put something in the microwave. He's helped put the toppings on his pizza. He likes trying to spread things on bread & chop up sandwiches (badly). He's good at beating an egg in a cup or omelette or scrambled eggs. He likes to look at things cooking in the oven or on the grill.

They are capable of doing quite a lot. Obviously they have to do a bit of listening & obeying instruction, but the game swiftly ends if they don't, which usually works. I think them getting involved helps deal with the control / desperate for independence thing. The only thing is, you have to let them control it I.e. they get to decide how much of what goes on the pizza or make a bit of a mess, otherwise it's just another argument!

There is only one solution to this. It is simple but not easy to do.

They need to stop expressing their opinion about what she eats.

They need to put the food in front of her and make a massive effort to appear to be totally unconcerned about what she eats.

Cutting out snacks and milk might help her appetite but it will not remove the control issues. It is the battle for supremacy which is causing the problem.

Until they realise that she has ultimate control over what she puts in her mouth they will never get anywhere. Their job is to make the food available. It is her job to decide what, from that selection to eat.

It's an incredibly hard thing to but nothing will improve until they do it. If they withdraw milk and snacks but still try to control her, she will just end up being hungrier while still not eating properly.

Get your DSis to join MN.

Your sister has asked you for advice which is great, the problem is she probably won't take any of your advice.

You are both right in that she is doing it for control - or more accurately attention. If she is continually being compared to her sister, this gets her lots of attention, unfortuantely negative, but still attention. However telling your sister this is not likely to go down well as no-one wants to hear that they favour a child, even if it is obvious to everyone else. But telling her that she is wanting attention because to spend more time with them may help and is less blamey than 'control'.

So positive things you can tell your sister:
If she is growing and gaining weight then she is eating something, just not what they would like. It's probably crisps and milk so cutting out snacks (for everybody) is a good idea.

The dislikes are so random because they aren't real, they are part of her wanting to spend time with her parents and misfiring. Can they engage her is fun food preparation?

Almost no child will deliberately starve themselves - so not eating should have no consequences as the consequences are the attention she is seeking. They need to praise like crazy every time she does something good and ignore the bad - she is a bright girl and will spot she is getting attention without having to cause herself pain and it will grow.

But good luck - if you even faintly criticize their parenting it will be a disaster!

I agree with praising and giving attention for positive behaviour but this must not be food related.

Giving her attention in all other areas of life is a good idea but they must take all the focus away from food.

In order for food to cease being a control battleground, there must be no attention paid to her eating whatsoever. I mean nothing at all.

Conversations at the dinner table must be about anything but food.

Food should be put within reach but she should be allowed to chose what goes on her plate form that.

They must never pick up food to offer to her specifically or ask her to try anything.

At the end of the meal they must say no more than "Have you finished?" before removing her plate.

They need to pretend not to notice what she is eating, good or bad.

Get your DSis to write a food diary for a week including everything her DD eats. At the end of the week she can look at it and see whether she needs to reduce the amount on offer of any particular food group.

If looking at it raises any concerns about her nutrition, i.e. they feel something important in missing, they can ask for it to be evaluated by a dietician. They will probably be surprised to find that she is getting everything she needs.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Am stumped. Have made various suggestions including 'suggesting that perhaps' it's attention / there's far more praise on the little one. She insists they don't compare the children in front of either of them (this is bollocks) and nor are voices ever raised (more bollocks). She also says that they do ignore largely what she eats but I have seen myself that this is not the case. As they are saying they do everything positively etc etc they are either deliberately lying or simply delusional. Either of which isn't really going to help the situation if I point it out.

I suspect my sister asking for help was more along the lines of her wanting to talk about how difficult DN is and not actually how to solve, or what might be causing, the problem. My sisters boyfriend, who she, bafflingly seems to increasingly emulate, is very much of the threats etc chain of thought and they have both laughed about how some friends of theirs serve their children the same meal time after time till it's all eaten. They said it 'cured things, no problem.'

Ps my sister is actually a healthcare professional (theatre nurse) you'd think she'd have a bit more common sense but it appears not