Ds (6) refusing all fruit and veg. What do I do?

[cupcake78]

It's not due to a genuine dislike as he eats it at school and for others. At home he is beyond difficult to feed and I've had enough!

I'm making weaning meals for dd and then meals for dh and I. I'm sick of cooking and come the new year dh and I will be watching what we eat! Dd is on a dairy free diet.

Ds is another matter all together. Tonight I have left him at the table with a plate containing a very small amount of stir fry veg, one strip of pepper a mange tout and some cabbage. I have told him until he eats it he stays there.

I think I need a firm approach to this as it's not fear of food it's just he's being picky.

Toffee with the greatest of respect (and trying to be helpful) if your dc is severely underweight eating salad and vegetables should really come low down on the priority list... focus on high fat puddings, cheese, yoghurt and protein foods,the majority of which most dc will readily eat some of. Along with a vitamin supplement this will build body mass and maintain a healthy weight as long as sugary foods are given in moderation.

You will not win!

Ignore (if he eats fruit and veg elsewhere it really doesn't matter).

Six yearolds are total control freaks they form their own view of the world, which isn't always at all logical.

"But, you ate cabbage at school" means to an adult, you like cabbage and will eat it anywhere.

Unfortunately, it doesn't in 6yo logic.

The only cure is time, some where between six and 9 DCs seem to get a much more adult, less toddler view of the world.

Absolutely, totally what Goldmandra said. He is trying to gain control and win a fight. Take the fight out of it and give him the control. But control over what goes in his mouth - and just quietly say to yourself "*Your job is to provide a healthy, balanced diet for him. It is his job to decide whether to eat it."

Do not cook separate meals!

Follow goldmandra's plan. Totally works. Especially as you know he eats this stuff at school. If you are worried about him being hungry for the first few days then just make sure you included something carb-y he will eat - so for example you are all having stir-fry. He gets a portion, same as you and DH. Without a fuss also give him a side plate with a small portion (eg half a slice of bread and butter - or a few breadsticks). Firstly as he will need higher carb/fats than your/your DH.

He will eat. He will not. But no arguments,no chance to "win" and he will soon realise the only one who suffers if he is hungry is him.

Also as this seems to be about control, as others have said try andget him engaged in what you are eating in other ways "Should we have red or green pepper in the chilli?" "Would you like chicken pasta or tuna pasta for tea". These discussion are only as part of menu planning IYSWIM - ie as chat around the breakfast table - so you/DH know what to cook later. Get him involved in cooking.

Good luck.

Oh and Toffee your nutritionists sounds barmy! Really? Eat some carrot or nothing? For an underweight child. Please do not try this.

Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I really don't want to do this and have held out against it for months. The reasoning behind it is to get him used to trying food that he won't try, such as carrots. And the reason the GP is focusing on him eating fruit and veg is because he eats so little of these things and she thinks he is suffering from vitamin deficiencies; she is also concerned with him eating full-fat foods, etc so he can put on weight, so it's not that she has forgotten that side of his diet.

I hate the idea of making him eat a microscopic portion of a food he doesn't want to try. I was made to sit at the table and eat when I was a child and I refused. It was misery and I vowed never to do that to my children. I decided that children eat if they are hungry. Fastforward many years and here I am with two children, both of whom are officially underweight. Argh! It is complicated by the fact that my older son does have a developmental disorder and has OCD issues about food, so now the professionals are getting in a flap about him.

Actually, you have all made me think again about this plan for DS2. It goes against my instincts, so sod it - I won't do it. We will just focus on the fun stuff like cooking together and growing veg indoors.

Toffee, I know nothing about any of this - massive disclaimer - but if your DS's issues may be OCD based rather than primarily diet based, would a specialist in OCD be better than a nutritionist / diet person?

There is a well-known MNer with a child with ASD who would eat almost nothing. An experienced teacher in his special school enabled him to eat baked beans by introducing a microscopic dot of bean juice onto a crisp (which he did like) and very slowly and extremely patiently building up to a whole bean on a crisp...and eventually to actual baked beans. Obviously the foodstuffs will be specific, but it seems to me that the key ingredient was an experienced specialist who understood the condition and understood the individual child.

All the parents I know with children with food issues use vitamin and mineral drops, usually in a drink that is tolerated.

As I understand it the commonly held notion that 'children will not starve themselves if food is on offer' does not apply to children with conditions such as ASD or OCD.

Sympathies - it sounds very stressful and distressing. I hope a constructive way forward is found for you soon.

As I understand it the commonly held notion that 'children will not starve themselves if food is on offer' does not apply to children with conditions such as ASD or OCD.

It often doesn't apply to children with ASD because they don't connect the sensation of hunger or of being satisfied with the process of eating eating. I'm not sure about OCD but the two conditions are thought to be closely related and anxiety plays a large part in both.

Toffee does your DS recognise the need to increase his food intake and to have enough vitamins and minerals? If so, perhaps you could ask him to devise a plan himself that he feels would help him to make progress at his own pace with him remaining in control. If he is also allowed to choose a reward when he achieves a self selected target he may start to see the whole process as safer and more positive.

Beware of medical professionals who don't understand your own child's disorder. I have found out the hard way with my own children that a medical degree does not provide someone with enough understanding to treat children with ASD and anxiety disorders and I am sure the same applies to OCD. These conditions require careful handling from experts. Trust your instincts because you are the expert in your own child.

Blue/Gold - it is my older son who has borderline ASD and severe OCD, not my younger son. However, I suspect my younger son is hypersensitive to taste and smell and also shows 'soft signs' of the more severe issues that my older son struggles with. In addition, we have had a tough few years with DS1 and I really haven't had the energy to deal with DS2's food refusal on top of everything else. He has definitely learnt that there will always be something else on offer if he doesn't eat. He is also very capable of going for hours without food if he doesn't want what's on offer, eg not eating any of his school packed lunch.

Blu - DS1 has just finished a course of CBT, which has been very successful and included dealing with his food issues (which included thinking food had been poisoned). I have learnt a lot from this myself, as I accompanied him to every session.

Gold - that's interesting about ASD and hunger. I agree with your plan of using rewards and working with the DC in devising it. Yes, I have discussed the importance of good diet (have the Eatwell Plate stuck up on my kitchen wall at child height!), but that seems to have little effect on them.

I would not worry too much about either of them if I wasn't getting pressure from doctors. DS1 now has to see an endocrinologist because he isn't growing. I have been bombarded with questions from DS1's psychiatrist on several occasions, as she seems to think I simply don't feed him properly (and it makes me cross that she sees this as my role, not my DH's). I put hidden fruit/veg and hidden fats in as much as I possibly can, offer both DC three meals a day, plus snacks in between meals to bulk them up (not too near the mealtimes though), give them hot chocolate made with full-fat milk and a squirt of cream at bedtime - and they are still skinny. I don't know what more I can do!

cupcake - I must say, I would be so delighted if my DC ate all the fruit and veg that your DS does and it wouldn't bother me if he refused it at home. I hope that the advice on this thread helps you feel less stressed at mealtimes now. It sounds to me as if you have quite an adventurous eater, compared to my two! And I'm sorry if I took over some of your thread - I didn't mean to.

I agree with your plan of using rewards and working with the DC in devising it.

You need to ask him if he would like to do it and let him lead the whole thing. It must be his plan no matter how slow the progress is that he is planning. Only offer suggestions to reduce the pace if he is being a bit too ambitious. Don't even hint that he should plan more.

Reverse psychology works well with eating so be the one suggesting caution and allow him to drive it at all times. It probably won't work if he feels that you're in control of it in any way.

Good luck. I hope it helps.

That's a good idea, Gold - thank you. The GP's plan was all about telling DS2 what was good for him and insisting he eat it (or miss out on the reward). But putting the control back into his hands makes sense and is very much like DS1's CBT, where he set the pace.

I don't agree at all about using rewards- what's to "reward" about eating?

Would we as adults eat more because of rewards?

One other thing that really worked for me is presenting all the foods on the table on serving plates- and putting empty plates in front of everyone. The family are then free to take as mich or as little taking serving spoons, ladels, forks or tongs.

Sometimes an overload of plates can seen quite daunting- so allowing everyone to take a little to start with- suggesting they can always come back for more can take the pressure off.

Or how about eating with chopsticks? A noodle and vegetable stir fry is very healthy and great fun.
Try a banana leaf meal (I lived in SE Asia for some time) you can buy banana leafs in some asian shops- serve a meal, rice, curry, gravy, veg all on a leaf- no cutlery allowed show how to make rice balls to dip using only the hands.
Maybe a kebab only meal- give some bamboo skewers ( cut off the sharp end) and try a variety of meats, veg and fruit. Just some ideas.

I don't agree at all about using rewards- what's to "reward" about eating?

This isn't the same as rewarding an adult for eating. It's about supporting a child to rise to his own challenge about changing his own eating habits. The key is that he is in control and giving himself an achievable goal. As adults we often talk about goals when changing eating habits but those goals are more often about fitting into certain outfit or wearing certain sizes.

I would never reward a child for eating because that gives them the message that eating is a task to be completed, not an enjoyable experience in itself.

The OP isn't going to reward her son for eating. She is going to put the food on the table and leave him to decide what to eat. At the same time she is going to offer him some ideas and support to change his own eating habits to help him to expand his diet and avoid becoming ill.

The key to the whole thing is handing control to the child.

Goldmandra- then what do you mean about "rewards"? You did mention it.
Handing control to a child is a challenge for the parent surely?

Goldmandra- then what do you mean about "rewards"? You did mention it.

The reward is for the child to use to reward himself when he has led his own progress towards keeping himself more healthy. He gets to choose the reward, the target and the timescale. The OP is handing him a tool to use to help himself. Enabling children to set and achieve manageable targets is an effective way of helping them to manage their anxiety and to feel positive about challenging themselves to make progress.

Handing control to a child is a challenge for the parent surely?

Lots of parents find it challenging to stop trying to gain control over their child's eating. That's why there are so many threads on MN about resistant eaters.

Children will always ultimately control what they eat, choosing from what is available. Working with that fact rather than fighting it is the key to managing children's eating issues.

Handing control to the child is a challenge for the parent surely
Yep - and that is parenting . Whether it is brushing their teeth for the first time, the first time they go into class alone, the first trip to the cinema - what we are here for is to gradually pass over the reins of control until they are out all night or leaving home.

I have found in the past DS2 had food control issues - I followed the view of presenting him with food and left it up to him whether he ate it - but it is difficult. As a mother/parent you are programmed from their birth to feed them! I found I had more success with him if I began to let him have more control in other areas as well. Whether this helped him chill out over feeling the need to battle over food - or helped me realise I needed to let him grow up and gain some control I am not sure. But just little things like I would let him decide if we walked the dog before or after tea. Or giving him more choice over clothes etc

Hope this make sense!

I'm interested in what Blu said about ASD and food faddishness. DS2 is currently awaiting tests for ASD, on school's advice. He was extremely below weight for first four years of his life and would gag or vomit at food he didn't want. Was extremely fussy, had FTT and we were at our wits end, giving so much conflicting advice.

In the end we had to go with advice that felt right. I made a list of the foods he'd each within each food group and based his meals around those, with added vitamin drops to his milk and then vitamin jelly bears once he was older. It took the pressure off and also made me realise his choices weren't unhealthy - just limited.

Did a lot of smuggling in the veg and still do. But now he is very sturdy and healthy and has a great appetite - something I'd never have believed during his first five years.

Toffee - can you make a list of what your DC will eat - divide it into food groups to see if there's something from each. If they will eat pizza or burgers or pasta with sauce you can sneak a wide range of veg into these - just start small - add a single spoonful of veg mix to the pizza base or burger mix, then next time, add two spoonfuls and so on.

Lost - luckily DS2 loves my pasta sauce (DS1 will only eat the Dolmio one and can always tell if I mix any of mine into it) and I do sneak a variety of veg in there. He doesn't eat much of it, though, so I suppose that only ever counts as one portion. Will try adding the sauce to homemade pizza too.

Have just received this book from Amazon and am going to give it a go. Cupcake - might be worth a look for you too. I read through it last night and already can see the pitfalls I have fallen into (calling DS2 'fussy' in earshot of him, only giving him the food he likes, etc).

Our kids are excellent eaters. We don't eat fish fingers or nuggety crap, we all just eat the same dish served to everyone. So sometimes it's mild curry, sometimes it's stuffed tomatoes, sometimes it's lasagne or some pulse based dish with salad.

I've always just served the food, talked about other nice stuff and paid no interest in them eating or not eating. If they don't eat they still have to sit at the table till we are all finished. If my boys choose not to eat ill tell them it's fine but that's all there is. If hungry later I serve the same old fish cold without fuss. I refuse to do stand offs. The most I ask is that they try a mouthfuls before leaving it. They are allowed to leave one item and still get pudding.

I think it's much easier to start as you intend from weaning (we never ate processed) then it is to try and back track and expand food repertoire.

It can be different again with children with SEN as there maybe sensory issues to work with

ahem ^^

cupcake - you might be interested to hear how I'm getting on, as it could be very useful for you.

I can't believe this is really working so quickly, but have to report back on progress so far. I have stopped showing any concern at all about what DS2 eats. I don't praise him for eating or upbraid him for not eating something.

We have made pizza faces twice: the first time, DS2 ate a tiny corner of mushroom , which I pretended not to notice; the second time, he ate a slice of mushroom and a square of green pepper .

Last night, he asked me for an orange. Again, I showed no response, other than to fetch him a peeled orange. He ate it, said it was delicious and asked for another. Same happened this morning at breakfast.

So, in DS2's case, removing the 'battle' over food seems to be working already. The book says that it will take months, not days, for your child to start eating better, so I'm taking the long view with this.

Toffee that's fantastic! I'm sitting here with a big grin on my face

Long may it continue.