Running out of ideas

[MrsAnthonyKiedis]

Having major behaviour probs with ds 3.9. He has just become very defiant and absolutely not listen to a word I have said. Have tried counting to 3, naughty step, removing toys, time out, shouting , and am in process of making a behaviour/reward chart. But I'm at the end of my tether. Have a 10mo dd too, and she is v clingy and screams if I leave the room.
Had a bad few days, where ds was cheeky in our friend's car, scratched and kicked me, was naughty when we went out and kept running off, then pushed his sister over twice when I left the room to put nappy in bin a stone's throw away. When I came back he was laughing, and I asked him what he had done, he just cackled in my face, all the while dd was screaming. So I smacked him then spent the evening sobbing. I am gutted that I lost control, and it was patently the wrong thing to do, as apart from anything else it had no effect, he continued to laugh.
So have been pretty miserable about this sudden descent into very bad behaviour, and my apparent inability to control things. What do I do? If I implement punishments and explain them to him, it just escalates as he then starts shouting and stropping about that. I wondered if I have been overpunishing him? If he is really naughty, as he was on Wednesday, should I then refuse to buy him things when we are at the shops next day (comic, sweets etc) in addition to him having been sent to bed with no story?
I know it's just a phase, but it's really got to me this week. dh been working 15 hr days so I am on my own with them atm. Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated!
TIA, threelittlebabies

anyone? please

My first thought is that it sounds like you need a bit of a break before you gather yourself up and go back into the fray. Is there anyone (family or friends?) nearby that could give you some time off - even if it was just an hour or so? Or given that summer holidays are almost here - what about a local teenager you could give a fiver to in exchange for him/her entertaining the kids in the garden while you get to slob around the house for an afternoon (i.e. not sole care, but at least so the pressure is off you?)

In terms of the other stuff - I'm guessing that dd at 10 months is now becoming more mobile and more "competition" for ds? That could be causing a lot of the friction. The most CONSISTENT method of dealing with bad behaviour I've found is to try and ignore most of the low level bad behaviour, for the stuff you can't ignore, remove him quietly and quickly from the room and away from your attention for a few minutes somewhere safe (he's almost 4, so probably for about 4 mins - set a timer). Then go on praise and attention overload when they're behaving well - so they get rewarded by your attention for the good stuff. This takes a lot of energy to be consistent with, so if you possibly can get some help to have a bit of a break, at least until you're back on track.

I can also recommend thoroughly the book "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" - it's a bit american in places, but the ideas are sound, has really made me think about how I interract with my children and best of all has cartoon summaries so you can dive in quick when you're short of time and patience.

Hope it starts to get more manageable soon. It's hard work and so easy to sink into despair when then they're like this, isn't it?

Oh, same authors also have a book called "Siblings Without Rivalry" - carries on similar themes to the first but is more specific to sibling interraction - if you feel that competition and friction between ds and dd is the main cause of the problems, it's probably not a bad book to pick up from the bookshop/library too.

GeorginaA thanks for your lovely response, you seemed to know just how I am feeling! Unfortunately I am already doing the things you mentioned consistently, so feel I have nowhere left to turn. But I will look for the book you recommended on Monday.

Yesterday was a much better day, but this morning by 9am ds had pushed his sister by her head, thrown his pillow and blanket in her face and hit and kicked me several times, all whilst laughing in my face. You made an interesting point about dd becoming more "competition" for him. I have struggled to discipline/punish him immediately after the event this morning because dd screams if I move away from her or out of her sight. She does demand the most attention and I am sure this is why he behaves as he does. I took 2 things off him immediately- dh has suggested that later I put all his teddies, which are already confiscated, into a bin bag to let him see we are serious about things. But would that be too much punishment?

Ironically he has been at his best behaviour the last few days when I have allowed him to watch some television!

Someone tell me it's just a phase- ds and dd- Please!

If TV keeps you sane in the short-term - go for it. Honestly, if the day is going down hill, then a bit of mindless (age-appropriate) telly watching ISN'T going to mentally scar them for life whatever the "experts" say - but it may just help you stay calm.

I wouldn't throw away his toys, but putting them away in a high wardrobe for a day, might have a similar effect without being too punative? Especially if done completely calmly - it's a good natural consequence "IF you can't play with these nicely then they'll be put away. You can have them back tomorrow". Kids are bright, he'll soon figure out that he'll run out of stuff if he doesn't change tactics!

I think it's important (once the youngest is mobile) for the eldest to see you telling off the youngest from time to time too. I don't know about you, but I found that being more laid back with the second (and knowing that my youngest son's behaviour wasn't true "naughtiness") just compounded any resentment from the older. The odd firm "no, don't do that [dd]. I'll have to take the toy away from you" will at the very least show ds that you're even handed and you're not just reserving all the lovey dovey attention for the youngest. And do put her down and say clearly "no, [ds] needs me to do x right now, we'll have a cuddle in five minutes", even though she won't understand (and it may cause momentarily more grief) it'll be sending a clear message to ds that he's still important.

Another thing - do you get any individual time with them? Could you wangle a way to do some individual activities with each, say, at the weekend - divide and conquer? I know it's nice to spend "family time" especially if dh has been away in the week, but often a bit of individual time at the weekend can leave good feelings for you AND the kids that make for an easier week ahead.

It IS just a phase, things DO get better, I promise. Ds1 is now 5 and ds2 is 2 and they both play really nicely together now most of the time. I am very aware though of what I say and how I say it to avoid any resentment/perceived child preference (even when one is being a PITA and the other being a joy to be with).

Thanks GeorginaA. What you say makes an awful lot of sense. dd is a demanding baby, and naturally I give in to her, but as my mum just pointed out to me, ds could see it as me rejecting him. I wasn't going to throw the toys out, btw, am not that mean! dh suggested it to make ds think we were, which I think is also mean, but then again I don't know if I am being too soft!

Crikey, it's a minefiled isn't it?! Am glad your two play well together, as that is the same ages gap as I have between ds and dd. Are yours boys or girls?

Thanks again for the replies, have been feeling like the worst mummy in the world

Two boys (so I'm outnumbered, lol!)

You're not the worst mummy in the world. You wouldn't be on here trying to find other solutions if you were. It's incredibly difficult when they're this young, and with so many changes at these ages it's a struggle to find your equillibrium a bit, isn't it? Just as you suss out the best way to deal with things, they go and change on you and come up with new challenges!!

I was never really enjoyed the baby stages much - apart from a superficial "awww, cute" angle. Now ds2 is two years old, I've really started to enjoy it all again. Mind you, I might not being saying that after the 6 weeks of holiday

just jumping in here but i so know were you are coming from - mine are dd 4.9 yo and ds nearly 2 and it has got better but 12 months ago i would have given them away!! dd did pretty much what your oldest is doing - it came down to her not getting enough attention and she knew if she pushed ds over or something she would get attention even if it was negative - shout, time out, tell off etc - persivere though because the consistency of using calm but firm tones and confiscating toys, time out etc do work eventually but be sure to give lots of attention for nice behaviour or just when he is around behaving normally - i made a point of ten hugs and "love you" per day which unusually made massive difference but obviously only when behaviour warranted it! it wont harm your baby to have to wait for attention either as you could be setting up a difficult situation if she is given attention for clingy behaviour although she is at seperation anxiety stage - i found just talking to baby but still going about my business and staying in sight worked !! good luck!

Sometimes the only thing to do is stick baby infront of tellytubbies and give the older one some attention..Mine are now 5 and 8 and we find bribery has worked from about 3 years. They have a piggy bank and get 10p for correct behaviour and we go and spend it the first day of the school holidays...it teaches about saving as well. It has sorted out bed wetting, getting dressed for school and settling at night (1p gets taken away when parent has to come up stairs)...
mind you it doesn't always work the XBox is on top of the kitchen units again and someone is sulking in his bedroom..

birdmummy - like the piggy bank idea - how you do decide if they get the money ? my dd can have numerous instances of attitude during the day - should i allow a certain amount or none at all??

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. Yesterday was AWFUL. Ds was v naughty and had me in tears, dd screamed for 3 hours etc etc, but am feeling calmer and more in control today. Ds and I have been making a behaviour and reward chart together- hopefully it will do the trick. Dd seems happier too. Will see how it goes.

Hey Cleaning
Start with one problem area..ours was bed wetting with the 7year old (but had to give it to the 3year old as well, he's always been dry, to make it fair) and give money for achieving that 10 or 20p is enough. When that has been working (we kept going until we had 2 full weeks of dry nights) and then moved onto tackling getting dressed in the morning (this one is still not always successful but it has helped) it has also been a dream at settling the (now)5 year old at night. But had to up the anti to £1 for bedroom tidying.

thanks birdmummy - might try and adapt that for say every 2 hours without attitude or whining and see if it has any effect (ie stops the attitude) we live in hope.....